Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 32
# 21
04-01-2013, 07:41 AM
Just a quick question, are they subnuc'ing you in their strike as in, subnucleonic beam, the purple beam that then rings around your ship? Because if they are then that's an inherent Sci Captain ability that is designed to knock out your skill tray. Which would be why you're losing the ability to use it.
I am NEVER calling my avatars 'toons'.

Quote:
Some people buy Tier V ships and expect to automatically win. Other people buy Tier V ships and are Tier V pilots
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 933
# 22
04-01-2013, 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilhansk View Post
You know me Renim, you know that I am a somewhat capable escort player, and as weird as it may sound, the OP has a point.

Under normal circumstances, the attacked player has a time window of about 1 second to react to the incoming stun.

Under certain circumstances (I don't wanna get into details), the time window to react is ZERO. The stun gets applied on you before the BOP decloaks and get targetable itself. I have frapsed and watched these attack runs in slow motion. In a nutshell, right now BOPS are capable of stunning while they are cloaked. Listening to audio clues will not help. "Staying alert" will not help.
The same can be said for alpha happy tactical cloaked ships so really this argument is invalid unless you're trying to further imbalance this title by making science captains even more useless then they already are in most cases.
I would like for the devs to open a poll/feedback thread on what exactly the players would like to see in the near future for the game.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,794
# 23
04-01-2013, 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the1tigglet View Post
The same can be said for alpha happy tactical cloaked ships so really this argument is invalid unless you're trying to further imbalance this title by making science captains even more useless then they already are in most cases.
Well you don't have to be a sci captain to run a shockwave.

Honestly everyone's crying for nothing....

I don't bother with shockwave anymore the stun isn't strong enough to justify the lt commander slots. (unless you cheese enough to be running subterfuge boffs on a brel before the fix thats coming shortly)

I find you really don't need the stun... all you really have to do is stay cloaked until you know your targets buffs are on cool down... time your run for the 5s they can't have a tac team with out help and the chances of them living are pretty low.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 24
04-01-2013, 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladydragonfury View Post
Just a quick question, are they subnuc'ing you in their strike as in, subnucleonic beam, the purple beam that then rings around your ship? Because if they are then that's an inherent Sci Captain ability that is designed to knock out your skill tray. Which would be why you're losing the ability to use it.
Sub-Nucleonic Beam peels all the buffs off of a target and sets back any powers currently on cooldown by up to 30 seconds. The powers will say 2+ minutes, but the effect always wears off after no more than 30 seconds. There is no disable component in SNB, that comes from PSW and other assorted weapons with the same stun on them.

Off the top of my head that includes:

MACO 3-Piece Heavy Graviton Beam
Tricobalts (torpedoes and mines)
Nadeon Detonator modified torpedoes
Magnetometric Charge
Temporal Disruption Torpedo (?)
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 25
04-01-2013, 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilhansk View Post
You know me Renim, you know that I am a somewhat capable escort player, and as weird as it may sound, the OP has a point.

Under normal circumstances, the attacked player has a time window of about 1 second to react to the incoming stun.

Under certain circumstances (I don't wanna get into details), the time window to react is ZERO. The stun gets applied on you before the BOP decloaks and get targetable itself. I have frapsed and watched these attack runs in slow motion. In a nutshell, right now BOPS are capable of stunning while they are cloaked. Listening to audio clues will not help. "Staying alert" will not help.
Yet prebuffing your abilities in a smart way will counter ALOT of shockwaves and the dmg after that.

Omega 50% uptime on escort, thats already quite OP.
2 Tacteams, you know what a tac team + epts does when someone alphas you, even with the highst spike its mostly not enough to take someone down (who also has some decent hull resists on them)

Torps, forget it with TT up

So omega 50%, in the 15 + 15 second of not having omega up (The other 50%) you can put in a tacteam there which basically only gives any bop a very low amount of a timeframe per minute to actually do a successful strike.

Lets be honest, if you spec up internal dampeners to 9 the shockwave stun is already brought down to 2~ perhaps even less seconds.

The delay between decloak and firing all of your weapons, beam overloads and torps still have a latency of at least 2 to 4 seconds because of ability/weapon queing delay. Also not to mention the shockwave travel time before actual stun hit (Even then there is a delay at closer ranges)

From the time to decloak you hear the decloak sound, you hear additional buffs being buffedu p in a short timespan, plenty of time for a quick player to react and throw in a tacteam just in case.

You know me well in my bop by now hank, and its kinda sad to see players that simply dont want me on the opposing team anymore because its considered OP, where there is enough that can be done to counter it. In fact ive seen people i can simply not take down because they have so much resist up and have internal damps specced, those arent even high quality inner circle etc ppl.

Knowing all this, it is definately counterable, and it only requires players which can react as fast as the BoP can do an efficient and very fast alpha, and a bit of intertial damps, and your good against 99% of the bop players.

Only a handful will adapt.

Soon my sci bop is rdy and I bet I dont even need shockwave to pull off a good alpha without alpha, lets open up a new thread in advance on how OP subnucs are then. Nerf every ability until nobody can kill anything, buff Faw and lets do rainbow pew and shield proc kills, you cant stop a bop.

Get your balls together and get a grip.



"right now BOPS are capable of stunning while they are cloaked"

B'rel's have always had the ability to shockwave in cloak, no news there either. Only difference is PSW has been nerfed since then over and over.

Last edited by darkfader1988; 04-01-2013 at 09:12 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 32
# 26
04-01-2013, 10:32 AM
Sorry, I didn't realise giving an idea of where the cooldowns came from meant that I or anyone else was supporting or suggesting subnucs should be nuked. Especially since I happen to play a Science Captain as my main char in Fed and happen to pilot one of the much maligned pure Sci ships. I don't want subnuc nuked, just wondering if that might help to explain the tray cooldowns. But now I know more about that, and know it can't be the cause, so thanks thegrimcorsair.
I am NEVER calling my avatars 'toons'.

Quote:
Some people buy Tier V ships and expect to automatically win. Other people buy Tier V ships and are Tier V pilots
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 27
04-01-2013, 10:32 AM
Presumably if you run in under MES you have no problem firing off a PSW by surprise...of course, you lose the de-cloak buff.
_________________________________________________
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 225
# 28
04-01-2013, 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
Completely valid as a tactic, the only issue I have is when the bop is still cloaked and all the attacks are cloaked so you can't see anything anywhere. Even with a reactive sensor scan and being in a sci ship, you still see nothing. Not even the freaking attacks or the wave from the shockwave.


That's when I have a problem.

And yes I am bitter that cryptic hasn't fixed it.
fixed on redshirt
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,737
# 29
04-01-2013, 06:19 PM
I'm glad.

I never would have bought those boffs in that state, and I sure would hate to fly alongside people abusing them.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 30
04-02-2013, 01:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retrosrages View Post
my ping is 28ms I run on fibre optics so my connection is ok. As they other guy said you get stunned before they even decloak these days and there seem to be a way around the 20 second cool down on the battle cloak as well, a bop should have to fully decloak before they can unleash any stun or debuff but lets see what happen after the romulan boff fix
Well, the problem is that the decloak sequence takes 2-3 seconds to actually complete. To anyone paying attention for cloaked attackers, that's enough time to snap on Tactical Team + EPtS1 or 2, and maybe throw out a tractor beam or other immobilizer or a stun at the BoP.

BoPs have to strike fast in order to make the tactic work. Giving the target 3 seconds of warning time via the audible decloaking sound (and the subsequent visibility) is far too much. The best PvPers can have someone locked down in 5 seconds flat with sci skills and the like. Heaven help you if you delay an attack against a good escort pilot, as well. . .they hit Omega, and your attack's wasted. Especially since they'll just circle around and strafe you with an alpha strike.

The cloak is ultimately fine as it is (though I'd like some protection while in cloak, maybe a hull resist buff). I wish people would stop suggesting it be altered.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:26 PM.