Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 41
04-02-2013, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim View Post
Since small craft have an excessively high rate of attrition
So nice to see you running away from mechanics. Attrition rate in STO is not at all representative of what in-universe losses may or may not be, nor is STO's mechanic to keep you from running out of fighters representative of how carriers in-universe operate.

Unless you're going to argue that an Akira is a TARDIS since it somehow magically manages to stuff forty fighters, twenty plus support craft, a mobile factory, and enough weapons to be a viable frontline warship into a spaceframe under five hundred meters long (and without a substantial secondary hull like the Galaxy).

Last edited by stirling191; 04-02-2013 at 11:29 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 354
# 42
04-02-2013, 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
So nice to see you running away from mechanics. Attrition rate in STO is not at all representative of what in-universe losses may or may not be, nor is STO's mechanic to keep you from running out of fighters representative of how carriers in-universe operate.
So, in fact, the attrition rate and behavior of small craft in STO, brought up by this post,

Quote:
The fact that STO's strike craft are as dumb as a sack of hammers does not in the least make carriers into floating drone factories.
has nothing to do with my original point, and you're merely pontificating.

Last edited by theodrim; 04-02-2013 at 11:31 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 43
04-02-2013, 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim View Post
So, in fact, the attrition rate and behavior of small craft in STO has nothing to do with my original point, and you're merely pontificating.
And yet, you used it (specifically STO's inability to keep a fighter alive for more than three seconds) to support your argument that somehow 25th century carriers have replicators they must somehow build their own fighters, supplies and munitions and don't actually carry their own fighters. Which then somehow equates to a massive ship having a capacity substantially less than a ship an order of magnitude smaller.

But hey, kudos for breaking out the big words.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 354
# 44
04-02-2013, 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
And yet, you used it (specifically STO's inability to keep a fighter alive for more than three seconds) to support your argument that somehow 25th century carriers have replicators they must somehow build their own fighters, supplies and munitions and don't actually carry their own fighters.
If this is what you believe, I strongly urge you re-read my two initial posts on the topic because not once did I say a word about rate of attrition until you brought it up, discussing small craft behavior in-game.

Not to mention that, if you really want to talk about small craft's attrition rate, I have about three seasons' worth of DS9 which features Peregrine-class craft being atomized with wild abandon to which I could point.

Last edited by theodrim; 04-02-2013 at 11:36 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 45
04-02-2013, 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim View Post
If this is what you believe, I strongly urge you re-read my two initial posts on the topic because not once did I say a word about attrition until you brought it up, discussing small craft behavior in-game.
Let's review....

Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim View Post
That would be because it's a silly factor in a universe with industrial-scale replicators, at which point the primary limitations are crew, power and carried raw materiel. Even the former is hardly a limiting factor, given the prevalence of photonics in STO, and so is the latter since practically any matter can be harvested and repurposed for replication. Lost small craft complements could be replaced in a matter of minutes to hours, depending on the size and complexity of the replicators, energy requirements, and relevant craft.
Seems fairly clear to me that you made the loss argument before I did.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 46
04-02-2013, 11:37 AM
Q: Is carrier gameplay suffering because of the number of fighters they carry?

A: No.

Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 354
# 47
04-02-2013, 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
Seems fairly clear to me that you made the loss argument before I did.
And, are you arguing that attrition does not occur regardless of its rate among small craft in the Trek universe?
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 48
04-02-2013, 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim View Post
Not to mention that, if you really want to talk about small craft's attrition rate, I have about three seasons' worth of DS9 which features Peregrine-class craft being atomized with wild abandon to which I could point.
For starters, Peregrines only appear in I believe five EPs of DS9.

Secondly, you see two or three Peregrines go boom during Operation Return. That's it. In a firefight between literally thousands of medium to capital warships, that's pretty damn good.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,395
# 49
04-02-2013, 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
(specifically STO's inability to keep a fighter alive for more than three seconds)
a capital ship-grade weapon starts firing on something that size (which has paper-thin armor, i might add) and you really expect it to live longer than 3 seconds? 3 seconds is actually being generous with regards to fighter survivability because i don't even give it 1 once it's targeted
Quote:
[Combat (Self)] Your Kumari Phaser Wing Cannons - Overload deals 128698 (67705) Phaser Damage(Critical) to Borg Bird-of-Prey.
don't mess with the andorians
Quote:
Originally Posted by starswordc View Post
If it walks like an idiot, talks like an idiot, and acts like an idiot, it's a frakking idiot.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 50
04-02-2013, 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim View Post
And, are you arguing that attrition does not occur regardless of its rate among small craft in the Trek universe?
I'm not and you know it. I'm making the point that, unlike STO, carriers don't lose dozens (or more) of their fighters in every engagement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfang240 View Post
a capital ship-grade weapon starts firing on something that size (which has paper-thin armor, i might add) and you really expect it to live longer than 3 seconds? 3 seconds is actually being generous with regards to fighter survivability because i don't even give it 1 once it's targeted

Targeting and hitting are two very different things.
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