Ensign
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 20
# 231
04-22-2013, 12:11 AM
I don't think the trait system is ready to be used just yet. It is very buggy. On one time through I could delete all my traits and then never reset them or add new ones.

The biggest problem I see is this just seems like a money thing. People are going to run out of tokens to respec their traits, and then its going to cost Zen. The whole idea seems stupid if that is the purpose of them.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 406
# 232
04-22-2013, 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigercatgirl View Post
I don't think the trait system is ready to be used just yet. It is very buggy. On one time through I could delete all my traits and then never reset them or add new ones.

The biggest problem I see is this just seems like a money thing. People are going to run out of tokens to respec their traits, and then its going to cost Zen. The whole idea seems stupid if that is the purpose of them.
Well, the idea is to balance the traits, so that one trait isn't so overpowered compared to others. Since "old characters" didn't have access to the new traits, it's only fair to allow them to choose new ones, especially if you think about a "new character" with 10 traits (inclusive species-trait) compared to an "old character" with only 4.
The first character one creates in the game has usually never the optimal traits, so you've got to create a new one with better traits.

Balancing the traits is a little difficult, because some provide only a good feeling while you can calculate the effects of others with basic math. For example: Lucky increases your critical chance by 3%, with the base critical-servity of 50% you get to 1.5% increasement of your damage (with weapons) on ground. If you use the same trait with other weapons (AP) you get critical-servity of more then 70%, or even more if you use the Omega-Ground-Set.

So, the big problem with "Lucky" is that it gives you the best effect only when you choose the correct gear (and who knows, when he/she is playing the game for the first time, what the endgame gear is like?). If it should perform better with "all builds" (maybe on a SCI), then it should have an effect on Expose-Chance, Exploit-Damage or Proc-Rate (for other weapons then just AP) as well.

If you would take a look at my previous 2 posts in this thread, you would see some more examples of traits that are unbalanced compared to others.
First one half of the so called Community complains: "Give us instant access to all veteran rewards, for going lifetime.", then the other half of the same Community complains: "I've earned 1000 Day membership, I want a special reward.".
Stop complaining, if it is enough for you, you could have the "Captains Table" for the real veterans, I don't want access to another dead social zone...
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 777
# 233
04-22-2013, 01:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostusthorn View Post
Did i missed anything but can't a romulan take Elusive as space trait? That would provide a significant disadvantage to them.
Romulans however have access to the Operative trait which boosts their critical hit and severity value in space combat. A decent tradeoff IMO.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 461
# 234
04-22-2013, 02:12 AM
Why does Limited Telepathy grant resistance to flanking, while Telepathic does not? It seems backwards that Limited Telepathy provides all the benefits of Telepathic and a very powerful additional benefit. It seems like it would make sense to just get rid of the Telepathic trait, and replace it with Limited Telepathy on those races that have access to it.

Last edited by guriphu; 04-22-2013 at 02:25 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 406
# 235
04-22-2013, 04:59 AM
Ok, I just saw that my human Boffs got an updated Leadership-trait. I thoght you wanted to balance the traits without nerfing any of them. Since I read "+20 Starship Subsystem Repair; + 0.03 Hull Regeneration (in Combat); +0.05 Hull Regeneration (out of Combat)" this seems to be untrue. Leadership was always "+20 Starship Subsystem Repair; +20 Starship Hull Repair", so the new trait should read as follows: "+20 Starship Subsystem Repair; +20 Starship Hull Repair + 0.01 Hull Regeneration (in Combat); +0.03 Hull Regeneration (out of Combat)".
That way we should get a higher passive Hull Regeneration, while maintaining the boosts to Engineering Team, Hazard-Emitters and so on. The problem about this is that the human captain is missing the last two effects at the moment.

I also saw that the description of the traits during the character creation differ from those on the trait-screen. For example "Resilient" displays as +7.5 Bonus during creation and as +5 Bonus on the trait-screen.

One more thing about Astrophysicist: Can't you add additional Bonuses to Skills like graviton generators, subspace decompiler or power insulators to it? A little boost for these abilities gives you a wider varity of abilities you can choose from, in the case of subspace decompiler you could also think about using subsystem targeting or Tricobalt Weapons again...
First one half of the so called Community complains: "Give us instant access to all veteran rewards, for going lifetime.", then the other half of the same Community complains: "I've earned 1000 Day membership, I want a special reward.".
Stop complaining, if it is enough for you, you could have the "Captains Table" for the real veterans, I don't want access to another dead social zone...
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 811
# 236
04-22-2013, 05:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eisenw0lf View Post
Romulans however have access to the Operative trait which boosts their critical hit and severity value in space combat. A decent tradeoff IMO.
Not really, since rom ships also have lower over all power, which results in less heals and resistance values. Making you much more fragile. And getting easier to hit makes for hurting.

I rather think the base traits like accurate, elusive, warptechy etc should be available to everyone. And then you balance the racials against that baseline. So everyone can be on the same footing.

-= ISE: 12:19 -=- CSE 12:41 -=- KASE 11:59 -=- HSe 8:06 total =-
-= KAGE 5:43 =-
[7:07] [Combat (Self)] Your Dual Disruptor Banks - Overload II deals 123086 (41096) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,801
# 237
04-22-2013, 08:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by torsten1009 View Post
Ok, I just saw that my human Boffs got an updated Leadership-trait. I thoght you wanted to balance the traits without nerfing any of them. Since I read "+20 Starship Subsystem Repair; + 0.03 Hull Regeneration (in Combat); +0.05 Hull Regeneration (out of Combat)" this seems to be untrue. Leadership was always "+20 Starship Subsystem Repair; +20 Starship Hull Repair", so the new trait should read as follows: "+20 Starship Subsystem Repair; +20 Starship Hull Repair + 0.01 Hull Regeneration (in Combat); +0.03 Hull Regeneration (out of Combat)".
That way we should get a higher passive Hull Regeneration, while maintaining the boosts to Engineering Team, Hazard-Emitters and so on. The problem about this is that the human captain is missing the last two effects at the moment.
The devs decided to nerf leadership, because its current strength on Holodeck is unintended. See this post:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=25

You seem to misunderstand how leadership functions on Holodeck. It does not increase the skill "Starship Hull Repair". For the exact mechanics, see this post:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...31&postcount=3

That said, leadership seems to be broken on Tribble. See this thread:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=630351

Last edited by frtoaster; 04-22-2013 at 08:11 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 406
# 238
04-23-2013, 07:24 AM
Ok, I tried a few more things with the new Trait-System:

Techie might be a bad trait, but Efficent is even worse: You get the best effects on systems that run on low powersetting, for the Boff-version you get a boost of up to 7.5/6=1.25 - twice that for the Captain-Trait - to 2 of your subsystems and the third subsystem on Powersetting 50 gets a boost of 0.625 for the Boff-version or 1.25 for the Captain-Trait (calculations based on stowiki/Efficent-Boff and ingame-numbers).

So it grants you a total power-increasement of (best case) 6.25 for the Captain-Trait. If you think about those "10% Traits" this should be more something like +20, meaning the magnitude has to be increased to "+48 Warpcore-Efficency" for the Captains-Trait, maybe "+16 Warpcore-Efficency" for the Boff-version (I know that this would be just 1/3 of the the Captains-Trait, but this would be allready more then twice as much as the current version).

Since these changes would be almost equivalent to 4,500 Skillpoints put into Warpcore Efficency, you should overthink the whole trait.

<EDIT>: I forgot the worst-case: On balanced preset the Captains-trait gives you +1.25 to every subsystem, this means only +5 to the whole ship. If you would base your calculations on this, you would get "+60 Warpcore-Efficency". This would be equivalent to more then 4,500 skillpoints in Warpcore-Efficency. If you would want the efficent Boffs to have at least 1/3 of this, they would need "+20 Warpcore-Efficency", so their current boost multiplied by almost 3.</EDIT>

A combined Trait with the effects of "Techie" and "Warp-Theorist" would give you at least a fixed Bonus of 0.5 (so 2.0 in total - still 40% of the worst case or 32% of the best case) to all Power-Systems, a better Power-Transfer-Rate and a boost to emergency-power-abilities additional to improved hull-heals (I'm not sure, but I think about 6% hull-regeneration per minute passive and better heals).
First one half of the so called Community complains: "Give us instant access to all veteran rewards, for going lifetime.", then the other half of the same Community complains: "I've earned 1000 Day membership, I want a special reward.".
Stop complaining, if it is enough for you, you could have the "Captains Table" for the real veterans, I don't want access to another dead social zone...

Last edited by torsten1009; 04-23-2013 at 09:10 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 482
# 239
04-23-2013, 10:20 AM
I have to agree with Torsten.

Anyway, for what it is worth, I sort of inclined to think things would be much simpler for people if all the racial traits were percentage based with a single element cap at 40% of whatever the variable value is after all other modifiers are applied to the element. Moreover grouped elements could cap out at four with a max of 10% each. Such a method would add real value to various captain builds which I think is the ultimate goal with traits.

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Lieutenant
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 30
# 240
04-23-2013, 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostusthorn View Post
I rather think the base traits like accurate, elusive, warptechy etc should be available to everyone. And then you balance the racials against that baseline. So everyone can be on the same footing.
I agree. We especially need the PvP friendly traits to be available across all races (of course, I say that of consoles as well)
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