Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 549
# 291
05-16-2013, 01:08 PM
...the whole Elusive/Accurate thing reminds me of something called "Feat tax" in D&D. Abilities that are so good in comparison to the rest that they appear mandatory if the objective is to be competitive.

I remember a Dev saying he was aware of this. He didn't like it. However, he was loathe to push for them to be removed since they were part of so many 'successful' builds.

I would argue that pulling them out puts everyone on even ground and grants the other traits more limelight. No more tax, more choices.
Mhae ir-Virinat t'Rillas, R.R.W Temer
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,567
# 292
05-16-2013, 01:40 PM
And what would happen to people who happen to like the accuracy and the defense boost?

A big nerf that the borg would surely be happy about, but I would be nerdraging.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 549
# 293
05-16-2013, 02:02 PM
Then simply raise the bar for everyone. No one would get any worse against the borg, and no nerf would be perceived at all.
Mhae ir-Virinat t'Rillas, R.R.W Temer
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 842
# 294
05-17-2013, 05:22 PM
Ok, having tinkered with my Science captain's Traits a bit I've found more issues. Field Researcher does not seem to apply to everything it should; I assume the damage is only intended to apply to basic ground attacks and not damaging powers.

I have tested with the following display results:
---Nausicaan Tegolar Sword, Nanopulse Edge Bat'leth, Tritanium Rending Bat'leth
------No bonus: Slash (left, Expose Attack), Slash (right, Exploit Attack)
------Bonus applied: Sword Pummel/Cross Strike
---Klingon Honor Guard Pulsewave Rifle
------No bonus: Photon Grenade Launcher
------Bonus applied: Pulsewave Setting, Rifle Butt
---Polarized Disruptor Split-Beam Rifle
------Bonus applied: Beam Setting, Rifle Butt
------Bonus applied, a lot: Auto-Targeting Beam (claims to be +225)
I am unsure if the damage bonus is being or not; since I lack a combat log parser I just used basic observation. While I did see an increase in damage against debuffed targets, I noticed no difference between testing with/without Field Researcher.

I would ask anyone with a combat log parser and a Science captain to test this in more detail and post your results here. Creativity needs testing for this as well, as tooptips indicate that it is also under performing.

Last edited by breadandcircuses; 05-18-2013 at 05:11 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 29
# 295
05-17-2013, 05:56 PM
I tried field researcher using my tricorder scan as the debuff source (since it's the most readily available debuff we have) and so far nothing, no seeing any difference with or without the field researcher, it just doesn't seem to work at all.

Besides we still don't know just what kind of damage increase are we looking at, some tooltip say +25% some just say +25. A flat +25 would be way overpowered with fast firing weapons like the minigun and very weak on pulsewave, so I hope not. 25% would be good if it's a "final" modifier, but if it's only 25% of the base damage of the weapon, well ouch, that would suck.

A bonus question: Is the damage bonus supposed to work with kit power like tachyon harmonic?

Last edited by silversera; 05-19-2013 at 05:10 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 62
# 296
05-17-2013, 06:39 PM
Am I the only one who thinks that Aliens are now getting the short end of the stick on Traits? I mean get to choose all 9 traits vs choice of 8 plus a racial trait with 2 or more traits combined.

Maybe give us some Alien only traits like:
Helium Breather
Silicone Base Lifeform
Exposure to Ancient Tech
Primitive
Plant Base Lifeform
Gamma Quadrant Origins
Delta Quadrant Origins

Or give us a 10th slot..... I mean you don't have to make the pendulum swing so damn hard from one extreme to another...
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 228
# 297
05-17-2013, 08:15 PM
there need to be more space traits, I ran out
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 842
# 298
05-18-2013, 05:03 PM
It would be cool to be able to select Alien racial traits. One option that could be interesting would be to allow Aliens to select ANY 2 traits that have a 50% effect each, in place of the current +1 optional. This would allow Alien captains to be more distinctive, while still giving them only 1 trait's worth of bonuses.

As a side note, Aliens aren't the only ones that are a bit borked by the altered racial traits. Have you noticed that Telepathy provides +10 Perception, +1 sec Expose duration, and +1.5% Expose chance while "Limited" Telepathy provides +10 Perception, +1 sec Expose duration, and Res(Flanking) by 40 degrees? Oh, and Gorn have gone from automatically getting Reptillian Strength of +17.5% Physical Damage and Knockback to NOT even being able to choose Physical Strength for +15% Physical Damage and 15% chance of +0.66m Knockback. I created a Gorn Science captain on Tribble to check this, and no option for Physical Strength was listed on my Traits tab. None. Seriously.

"Limited" Telepathy seems to be superior to the full version, or at least doesn't seem at all limited, and Gorn have somehow become enfeebled (my Klingon Science captain will have both the Klingon trait and Physical Strength, bwahahaha!). At least we now know why the Gorn lost to the Klingons now: they were weaker.

The devs still have some work to get done, and a few days to do so, before LoR launches. Here's hoping they do some work to re-balance this stuff, though I doubt it given that even this "Official" thread doesn't have a "Sticky" designation while the Uniform one is at the top of the list at the moment. Hint hint salamiinferno...

Last edited by breadandcircuses; 05-18-2013 at 05:09 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 14
# 299
05-23-2013, 09:08 AM
Same here: You received 1 Trait Unlock - Space Trait: Well Travelled

Nothing in the Traits
GERMAN - speaking
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 24
# 300
05-23-2013, 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by breadandcircuses View Post
It would be cool to be able to select Alien racial traits. One option that could be interesting would be to allow Aliens to select ANY 2 traits that have a 50% effect each, in place of the current +1 optional. This would allow Alien captains to be more distinctive, while still giving them only 1 trait's worth of bonuses.
There's no reason to give them only 50% of each, most of the other racial traits give either a full 100%(or more) of 2 or more traits as it is. Klingons, for instance, get 22.8 to damage... now I figure 7.5 of that is from aggressive and 15 is from physical strength...but as those are the only 2 types of physical damage boosters I remember... (not counting the gorn over-riding 20% physical strength or 'reptillian strength' and apparently now the caitans) and they still come out .3% ahead. And they include Soldier as well in theirs. It should probably just be choosing 2 traits that combine or (and I mean, having both options, not just make one or the other option) choose one of the other race's racial trait... it's not like racial traits are really that unique anyway... Leadership has always seemed like a stupid thing for a human racial trait since it implies no race is capable of leadership... It seems like an artificial designation designed around the fact that all of the main character-in-command of the tv shows and movies happened to be humans.



Quote:
Originally Posted by breadandcircuses View Post
As a side note, Aliens aren't the only ones that are a bit borked by the altered racial traits. Have you noticed that Telepathy provides +10 Perception, +1 sec Expose duration, and +1.5% Expose chance while "Limited" Telepathy provides +10 Perception, +1 sec Expose duration, and Res(Flanking) by 40 degrees? Oh, and Gorn have gone from automatically getting Reptillian Strength of +17.5% Physical Damage and Knockback to NOT even being able to choose Physical Strength for +15% Physical Damage and 15% chance of +0.66m Knockback. I created a Gorn Science captain on Tribble to check this, and no option for Physical Strength was listed on my Traits tab. None. Seriously.
It was bad enough that Alien's couldn't select Gorn level strength (like the Gorn are the strongest race in the universe or something amidst so many undiscovered ones...) but then I saw that only Tac Gorn's got physical strength (and that it's 20% I believe) AND both Cat races get 20% physical damage too?? Since when are the felines stronger then Vulcans, Romulans, Klingons and non-Tac Gorn? I noticed the lake of flanking resistance on telepath too... and actually cursed not being able to take the basic form 'limited telepathy' on my alien chars...Ridiculous. I hope Borg can select at least 15% physical strength... I have no intention of ever playing one, but their cybernetics should absolutely be capable of that, even liberated...


Quote:
Originally Posted by breadandcircuses View Post
"Limited" Telepathy seems to be superior to the full version, or at least doesn't seem at all limited, and Gorn have somehow become enfeebled (my Klingon Science captain will have both the Klingon trait and Physical Strength, bwahahaha!). At least we now know why the Gorn lost to the Klingons now: they were weaker.
Wait...wait... you mean the Klingons get an automatic 22.8 and still get to throw in the physical strength that all Klingons seem to have (as a racial to start with) on TOP of that? And they still took away physical strength from the non-tac Gorn? I'm starting to think they're trying to chase us off this game, instead of just suspecting it...

It was bad enough they were making us use our respec tokens from the start just to customize our traits...but all the oddities in the system on top of the singularity cores poor quality has not only balanced out my eagerness to start giving them money again from the anticipation of the Romulan faction to actual lethargy toward playing...

On the Traits, if they really wanted to revamp it, they probably should have made it an actual trait 'point' system with basic, advanced, and superior levels of traits at 1, 2, and 3 points respectively with higher traits overriding lower ones. (example, if you took Physical Strength 15% at creation, then selecting 20% strength would replace 15%, raising your 'used points' by 1 and putting 15% back on the list as 'unavailable' unless you remove your Strength trait and still have points. If you want to raise it later when you get more trait points at rank/level break, the advanced and superior versions would be discounted by 1 and override your old 15%)
Keeping in mind that Racial traits should cost an amount = to all the traits or simulated traits they consist of... (Vulcans, I believe, have Basic Telepathy and 15% Strength, so 2 points.) and leaving races with at least enough starting trait points to get 1 Superior 1 Advanced and 1 Basic (Alien's should be able to make a racial trait by combining 2 other traits or choosing another race's trait), after all, you're a 'hero' character, you should be better at start then a blue or purple Bridge Officer... Really, there shouldn't be any traits not available to the Alien race, since they're supposed to be so versatile, although they should only get 1 Race trait (either combined from 2, or chosen from a list of other race traits). It would have given more customization to characters, it would have made the most balance between being a cannon STO race, and being an Alien, and you wouldn't run into things like Limited Telepathy being better then full Telepathy... at least if done correctly...

Last edited by sythkainyn; 05-23-2013 at 06:06 PM.
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