Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 41
04-03-2013, 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dukedom01 View Post
hum hom.... where have my mind meld and nerve pinch gone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbmaverick View Post
Were they moved into the Vulcan racial mega-trait? I haven't tried creating a Vulcan character yet so I couldn't say.
I saw on the character creator that Nerve Pinch is a general Vulcan trait now (all Vulcans get), but didn't see Mind Meld. So not sure if that's going to be an Advanced Racial Trait or not.

Also noticed that they took out of traits as well. Some racies that had Telekinetic Power (mainly Aliens) no longer have them. And Humans lost Leadership.


Seeing some fun traits disappear is making me not like these trait changes more and more.

Last edited by azurianstar; 04-03-2013 at 12:27 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 197
# 42
04-03-2013, 12:27 AM
Regarding the new class-specific traits, I'm of the same opinion as quite a few of the other people in this thread: the Science and Engineering space ones are a little less effective than the Tactical space ones, especially in PvP.

It seems like all three classes have a captain-ability-related space trait. Giving a +30% bonus to GDF is an incredibly effective addition, especially given that most Tacs who use it for maximum effectiveness will pop it at low hull; the +30% hull resist magnitude (I think?) bonus essentially means that they can use it at even lower hull values to hit harder with even less fear of being killed.

In contrast, Eng's MW-related trait, while useful, may not come close to the same effectiveness; using MW usually just means an extra second or two of survivability because MW's heal isn't incredibly strong and doesn't come with any resists or debuff cleanses, so having it effectively cycle every 1:30 with the possibility of using MW twice in a row may not be so helpful. (Also, oddly, the current implementation would benefit Science ships and other low-hull ships when compared to Cruisers; the damage equal to 20% of hull over 5s requirement means that's more easily satisfied for Science ships, and the current, non-scaling-to-ship's-base-hull-levels MW implementation means that the heals are a proportionally larger fraction of a Science ship's hull than of a Cruiser's.)

However, Sci's Photonic Fleet-related trait is the most disappointing of these three. Like previous posters have mentioned, Photonic Fleet isn't that useful of an ability, especially in PvP; they'll clear some mines and occasionally use useful abilities, but since they're rather fragile and cannot be controlled, they're not very helpful. The trait, as written, effectively allows a 2min cooldown on Photonic Fleet instead of its current 4min cooldown, but because of the lackluster nature of Photonic Fleet itself the trait isn't that appealing.

Aside from these three captain-ability-related traits, each captain profession seems to have gotten a miscellaneous space trait. Unfortunately, Tac's still seems to be the most impressive one here. Their accuracy-reduction-on-crit ability is almost always useful -- they're almost always firing their weapons at someone, and reducing your enemies' accuracy is a crucial part of reducing the damage that they do. There's hardly a situation or build that I can think of where this ability is not useful.

Sci's exotic damage boosting trait, on the other hand, doesn't share the Tac's generalized usefulness. While it will certainly help ships that focus on science-based damage dealing methods (what few that are viable), there are plenty of science builds out there that don't do much science-based damage at all, but instead focus on control, healing, or some other idea. These builds would not benefit from this trait. Part of the problem with this is that Science bridge officer abilities are incredibly diverse, and that the Science captain abilities don't dictate a build setup as strongly as a Tac captain abilities' push them towards damage-focused builds. Perhaps create a more general trait that doesn't tie in specifically to a small handful of science abilities?

Engineering's batteries/capacitor-related trait also doesn't feel as useful. I think a couple of previous observations really hit the mark: 1) players don't activate batteries to spread power everywhere; they use batteries because they need a strong boost to a single system, and 2) the power boost is really short-lived compared to the CD of the consumables they're tied to. Plus, tying a trait to the use of a consumable leaves a bad feeling when compared to the other professions' "miscellaneous" space trait; their traits don't require activating any special abilities, but instead come about naturally as a function of things that are going on pretty much all the time, whether it be firing weapons for Tac or taking damage as Sci.

A rethinking of EPS Manifold Efficiency could be to do something that will help boost Engineer's natural EPS Power Transfer ability and make it better applicable to team settings, instead of effectively being a glorified red matter capacitor: increase the subsystem power cap on targets for duration, similar to what the Warp Cores are doing now, but with increased magnitude and across all systems.

In general, I get the feeling that Tacticals in general have gotten the best and most useful of the new space traits; Sci's and Eng's are lacking for various reasons, such as the points I've described above. The new trait system is a great way to explore the strengths of Science officers and bring Engineers back into greater use, especially in PvP and team settings; even though these traits weren't exactly what I was hoping for, I look forward to where Cryptic goes next!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,708
# 43
04-03-2013, 01:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by renimalt View Post
It seems like all three classes have a captain-ability-related space trait. Giving a +30% bonus to GDF is an incredibly effective addition, especially given that most Tacs who use it for maximum effectiveness will pop it at low hull; the +30% hull resist magnitude (I think?) bonus essentially means that they can use it at even lower hull values to hit harder with even less fear of being killed.
As a tac I find the new iteration of GDf and its related trait to be among the LEAST attractive. If I'm at 50% hull or less I'm not goign to be fighting, I'm going to be running away, you can't really depend on your defensive CDs to save you in cases you're a few seconds away from exploding.

As for the new traits.... will boffs be able to have their traits changed? I ask because my MACO photonic tac boff has creative.... as far as I know it doesn't have any healing powers? Creative seems something tailor made for healer or defensive type PCs, or PCs that like to use Hypos a lot, so where does that leave Boffs with the Creative Trait?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
....you are a bad starship captain and you should feel bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
However, I think with regard to the Romulan Republic player characters/npcs, it all comes down to a finite point:

These are not the Romulans from the shows.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 44
04-03-2013, 01:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
As a tac I find the new iteration of GDf and its related trait to be among the LEAST attractive. If I'm at 50% hull or less I'm not goign to be fighting, I'm going to be running away, you can't really depend on your defensive CDs to save you in cases you're a few seconds away from exploding.

As for the new traits.... will boffs be able to have their traits changed? I ask because my MACO photonic tac boff has creative.... as far as I know it doesn't have any healing powers? Creative seems something tailor made for healer or defensive type PCs, or PCs that like to use Hypos a lot, so where does that leave Boffs with the Creative Trait?
Well, perhaps it meant for those tacs, that actually fight to death and do not run. I like the new GDF aproach, I will reserve it esclusively for ramming speed, which will be enhanced greatly with that

Also cruisers can generally afford running low hull/strong shields for a while so this new GDF will suit tac/cruiser combo.

With that said, I generally dislike anything that adds more tankyness to escorts.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,702
# 45
04-03-2013, 01:33 AM
At this point providing feedback on the Tac skills is just silly.

IS GDF still providing the boost independent of current hull% or will I be able to dip below 50% activate and reap the benefits even when i m back at 100%? Sounds horrible to me if it is the latter.

If you want to delete engs from game, go ahead now is good time. Just give us a recareer token already. Clearly systems can't handle the trinity, engs are already obsolete, instead of working to counteract it. Tac gets more tankiness??????? and more crits. Eng get more energy, which has been maxed out since S5, and Bort already complained about it publicly back then. Have our energy levels dropped? no, moaaar energy to all, and moar on top to engs. The forums are full of reasonable suggestion about what to do with eng skills, if you can't think outside of the box of moar energy, give em a look.



Sic gets more spam, great, useless in PvE or PvP but more spam just what we ordered. Seriously, its not even a good april fools joke.
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013

Last edited by havam; 04-03-2013 at 01:46 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,685
# 46
04-03-2013, 02:10 AM
We already have two player-created threads on traits:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=599611
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=598381

I suggest that these threads be merged into this one, even though some of the replies will look a little strange. Perhaps, xiaoxiaon's original post should be given a prominent link, since it contains a lot of information:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...01&postcount=1

Last edited by frtoaster; 04-03-2013 at 04:03 AM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,702
# 47
04-03-2013, 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frtoaster View Post
We already have two player created threads on traits:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=599611
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=598381

I suggest that these threads be merged into this one, even though some of the replies will look a little strange.
Love this part the most: Broken's feedback still stands.

Nerf it, nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf


Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
That's all a work-in-progress and may not be indicative of how the final version will be -- it's why there were no notes in Tribble. I'm not saying that this trait's ability will or won't be there, as things are still being decided on, but until there are Tribble patch notes about it, please remember that it's all not finalized and still WIP.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,685
# 48
04-03-2013, 04:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by azurianstar View Post
Also noticed that they took out of traits as well. Some racies that had Telekinetic Power (mainly Aliens) no longer have them. And Humans lost Leadership.
Humans haven't lost the leadership trait. It was subsumed under a new trait called "Human".
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 545
# 49
04-03-2013, 04:55 AM
My thoughts (PvE perspective only)

Engineer Traits:
- I like the Miracle Worker one. I love that ability on my cruiser, it's a nice "oh ****!" button. Having the chance of it being up for often? I'd definitely pick this trait.
- I'm personally not a fan of using batteries besides RMC. I just dislike keeping track of my inventory on consumables. If rechargable batteries would make a comeback I'd like this trait very much though.
- At least my turrets rarely die and I can set up new ones on rather short cooldowns. Pet survivability was never something that seemed like a problem to me, so it seems like a solution to a problem that didn't exist. Maybe things are way different in PvP, I can only say what my personal experience with them is.
- Shield adaptation might be cool, I'd have to test it more in-depth. Are resistence charges kept even when the shield is down? Ground shields don't tend to last long.

Tactical Traits:
- I like that GDF is only usable below 50% now. It was just too big of a boost even at 100% and thus often not used as intended.
- However, as others have also said before me, I vehemently disagree with giving tactical captains any more defensive abilities. Escorts can tank way too much as it is, STOP increasing their survivability further. Seriously, WTF. (Yes Tac Captain != Escort necessarily, but we all know how it is ingame)
- Accuracy rending: Again, speed tanking escorts have amazing defense, by reducing the targets accuracy you make them even better tankers once again. STOP! Now I said I'm only coming from PvE perspective, but even I know that PvP is next to impossible without maximum Acc weapons as it is, this will just make things worse and worse.
- The ground traits seem strong but fine I guess. As long as the Eng traits get an equally strong impact, so far that's not the case

Science Traits:
- Photonic Fleet is a largely useless ability, wouldn't pick this trait if other options are available.
- Conservation of Energy sounds like a neat idea, though still just a drop of water in the desert. As others have said before, 1.3 * 0 is still 0. If science abilities are supposed to be serious sources for damage you need to work on the science abilities directly. Afterwards, THEN this trait will be awesome. Or, as others have stated, if you just do not want to have science players deal competitive damage, Science needs a trait that buffs crowd control and/or debuffs, not damage.
- Medical Vanguard: No cooldown? Seems insane.
- Field Researcher: Nice, though for PvE I'd still pick the healing kit over any other every day.

The update is still 6 weeks away and these are systems issues. I hope for once our feedback will be heard before it gets pushed to the game.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,067
# 50
04-03-2013, 05:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bghost View Post
the science space traits their pretty useless to science vessels. u need to make a brand new trait to replace Photonic capacitor (preferably a one that increases debuff potential). and increase the percentage of exotic damage for conservation of energy. cause 10% of nothing equals nothing.
Agree, if we compear the scie traits with the tact?s, they are a bit of a joke.
?A chance to increase exotic damage by 10% against a chance of gain 15% of reduction to ACC of the enemy? ?Is that really fair?
Now escorst are going to be a tank beast (more than they are now).

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