Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 338
I assume that the Mirror universe would have diverged either when Earth was developing its moral and philosophical backgrounds or during a war. Do note that all differences in the mirror universe are the result of earth being violent and hostile rather than the entire universe being opposite, for example a friendly Klingon. It is more likely it happened farther back in time, however do note the similarities between the Nazi and Terran salutes. It posibbly could have been caused in the episode "The City on the Edge of Forever" because with the survival of Edith Keeler the world fell to the Nazis.
What do you think about this? Leave your thoughts on when the divergence point could have been. (If they ever make another Star Trek Series this could be a good episode, or maybe I could do something in the foundry.)
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 2
06-27-2013, 07:35 AM
Based on everything shown, the primary divergence point is First Contact. Instead of greeting the Vulcans in peace and beginning the Terran awakening, Cochrane kills the crew, steals the ship, and uses its tech to found the Terran Empire.

There's some ambiguity to that though, since I think there's a one off line from somebody in the ENT MU sequence saying the Empire had existed "for centuries" as of the 22nd century. What that points to, I have not a clue.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,262
# 3
06-27-2013, 07:35 AM
Star Trek: Preserver, a novel, dates the divergence point as being the first alien contact on Earth: the Vulcans in 2063. Cochrane flips a coin to determine whether he should tell the people of Earth about the Borg threat, or keep it a secret. Keeping it a secret creates the Federation; making it public makes the Terran Empire, based on fear and being warlike.

Star Trek: Enterprise ("In a Mirror Darkly" is the episode) visually shows Cochrane shooting the Vulcan and looting the Vulcan ship; but it also describes significant changes in the histories of Earth dating back to even before Cochrane. Phlox said this, I believe.

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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 559
# 4
06-27-2013, 07:41 AM
^^ D'oh, ninja'd

Enterprise showed what the divergence point was... First Contact. This is also alluded to in William Shatners' Trek novels when the Spocks of both universes compare histories and discover that everything prior to First Contact is identical but some unknown quantity changed things so one group chose peace and the other war.
With the events of the movie First Contact, Zefram Cochrane and his bunch meet an obviously advanced alien race after being nearly destroyed by one (no way only Lily and Cochrane knew about the 'Borg).
In the Prime Universe they go on to make peace with Vulcans and form a United Federation of Planets to explore and expand through peaceful negotiation.
In the Mirror Universe (not to be confused with any other parallel realities) humans go bat-crap crazy and take the Vulcan ship, become more warlike and form an Empire of subjugated (and willing) species to expand and conquer.

Since Enterprise came after Shatners' novels (written in conjunction with Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens) it is likely it was influenced by the story in no small way. Where Shatner got the idea is open to debate.

Last edited by drowrulesupreme; 06-27-2013 at 07:42 AM. Reason: ninja'd
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,527
# 5
06-27-2013, 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stardestroyer001 View Post
Star Trek: Enterprise ("In a Mirror Darkly" is the episode) visually shows Cochrane shooting the Vulcan and looting the Vulcan ship; but it also describes significant changes in the histories of Earth dating back to even before Cochrane. Phlox said this, I believe.
Yep, Phlox and if I remember right T'Pol discussed how culturally and historically the universes were different all the way back to Shakespear, who was pretty much the same (nothing is said about the world around him, though).

That does suggest the colonial empires as a potential point of divergence, which also fits the Terran Empire's general attitudes and behavior toward other races.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 413
# 6
06-27-2013, 07:47 AM
Well, this is actually a point in a fiction piece I was writing for posting in Ten Forward (only got the first chapter of so done, so it's not really ready). This is just my own version in what could be considered a 'Mirror of the Mirror' universe.

In my story, the history diverged as the result of an alien attack during the mid-1980s or so, which itself was the result of an ancient war involving the Preservers and an extra-galactic invading power (and the origins of the Borg). As a result of this attack, the various nations of the Earth were biased against aliens in general and armed themselves against the 'next' attack. Part of this arming led to the Eugenics Wars, and later (when the feared attack failed to materialize and various nations got itchy fingers with the arsenals they had built) World War III.

This is why, when the Vulcans arrived in the Mirror version of First Contact, Cochrane and the other refugees kill the scout team and take over the ship. They may have lost much, but they still remember how Earth was attacked without warning, and the vow Terrans made about the next time they encountered aliens.

From a canon standpoint, I don't know if it was ever detailed where the split happened, but it seems it had to be between the end of WWII (since the Nazi party wasn't in charge of Earth, and Cochrane's people seemed pretty much the same as their counterparts in the Federation universe) and the aftermath of WWIII (since everyone in Cochrane's camp seemed quite happy with the idea of attacking peaceful aliens at first sight).

Last edited by danqueller; 06-27-2013 at 07:49 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,744
# 7
06-27-2013, 11:10 AM
Watch the title sequence for the Enterprise two-part, "In a Mirror, Darkly". It shows considerable differences stretching back at least as far as our Earth's First World War (that being the earliest point at which there was film). I'm guessing that the split between the Eastern and Western Roman Empires wasn't as pleasant as it was in our history, possibly because Christianity failed to catch on (for the first few centuries, the faithful strove to stick to the examples presented in the Gospels, rather than the rather more Old-Testament attitude that prevailed in Europe during the Middle Ages).

In my head-canon, the two Empires continued to fight; even after both effectively collapsed, a group claiming to be the rightful heirs to the emperors of Rome kept going. When technologies advanced, they used them to assert Imperial control over more and more of Earth. Their final victory came with the defeat of the Eastern Alliance in WWIII-equivalent; this did lay sufficient waste to their power that the Empire might have fallen one final time, were it not for the unsuspecting Vulcans landing, expecting the locals to greet them in friendship...
-------------------------------------------
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Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,312
# 8
06-27-2013, 11:48 AM
It's actually very simple.

The Mirror Universe timeline is one in which the Roman Empire never fell.


EDIT: or what jonsills said.


"I won't try to hide behind the Law if what I stand for is what's Right."

The Masterverse Timeline / Ten Forward Fanfics
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 243
# 9
06-27-2013, 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by danqueller View Post
Well, this is actually a point in a fiction piece I was writing for posting in Ten Forward (only got the first chapter of so done, so it's not really ready). This is just my own version in what could be considered a 'Mirror of the Mirror' universe.

In my story, the history diverged as the result of an alien attack during the mid-1980s or so, which itself was the result of an ancient war involving the Preservers and an extra-galactic invading power (and the origins of the Borg). As a result of this attack, the various nations of the Earth were biased against aliens in general and armed themselves against the 'next' attack. Part of this arming led to the Eugenics Wars, and later (when the feared attack failed to materialize and various nations got itchy fingers with the arsenals they had built) World War III.

This is why, when the Vulcans arrived in the Mirror version of First Contact, Cochrane and the other refugees kill the scout team and take over the ship. They may have lost much, but they still remember how Earth was attacked without warning, and the vow Terrans made about the next time they encountered aliens.

From a canon standpoint, I don't know if it was ever detailed where the split happened, but it seems it had to be between the end of WWII (since the Nazi party wasn't in charge of Earth, and Cochrane's people seemed pretty much the same as their counterparts in the Federation universe) and the aftermath of WWIII (since everyone in Cochrane's camp seemed quite happy with the idea of attacking peaceful aliens at first sight).

I found a trailer for your story:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-y2fJrHmy0
Anyway, like I was sayin', shrimp is the fruit of the sea. You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. Dey's uh, shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich. That- that's about it. - Bubba
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,941
# 10
06-27-2013, 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
Based on everything shown, the primary divergence point is First Contact. Instead of greeting the Vulcans in peace and beginning the Terran awakening, Cochrane kills the crew, steals the ship, and uses its tech to found the Terran Empire.

There's some ambiguity to that though, since I think there's a one off line from somebody in the ENT MU sequence saying the Empire had existed "for centuries" as of the 22nd century. What that points to, I have not a clue.
Non-canonical and soft canonical books aside, the Enterprise episode showing First Contact is currently the sequence farthest back in time we've seen, (but as johnsills pointed out the titles hinted a more). But FC is not the divergent point. Cochrane and a host of humans with him did not suddenly turn violent. They would have had personal histories of violence, something different from the personal histories of those in the Prime 'verse who survived WWIII, and didn't like having to be violent.
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