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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 876
As it stands now, team abilities (science team, engineering team, tactical team) are all limited by the same 15s GCD. This runs contrary to how most other families of skills work in the game -- where running two copies of the same skill imparts a larger GCD than skills that are merely related.

For example, Target Subsystems X will put another copy of Target Subsystems X onto a 30 second global. However, it will only put Target Subsystems Y on a 15 second global.

Emergency Power is in flux on tribble at the moment, but currently EPtX puts another copy of EPtX onto a 30 second global. However, it only puts EPtY on a 15 second global. No matter how the cards fall on this power, it will most likely come to rest on some variation of this mechanic.

Team abilities on the other hand put each other on a 15 second GCD. Doesn't matter if you're running two copies or tactical team, or one copy each of science and engineering team -- you're always limited by the same 15s global. This has very negative gameplay consequences.

Mainly, it artificially increases the gap between premade and pug players. Premade players are free to min/max into carrying two copies of their preferred team ability, as they can count on team support. Pug players feel obligated to take one copy of each team ability, as they cannot count on team support to clear a multitude of debuffs that amount to little more than a death penalty if left unchecked.

As a pug player:
  1. If you are taking focus fire with FoMM and beta applied without a tactical team to clear it and redistribute shields, you are dead.
  2. If you are hit by a boarding party without a tac team, you are also dead.
  3. Hit with GPG without an eng team, and you're dead if the other side focuses you.
  4. Hit with doff boosted VM without eng team to clear it, you are likely dead as well.
  5. Hit with subnuke and scan without a science team to clear it, and you are most certainly dead.

Hence as a pug you feel pressure to take one of each team ability despite the fact that you are "wasting" one slot (three 30s cooldown abilities with a 15s global between all three means you can at most attain 2/3 benefit). At the very least you want to take both a science team and tactical team, and even then using one of them leaves you vulnerable for 15 seconds against debuffs that are cleared by the other. A premade player only needs to take two copies of the same team ability, min/max into it, and have everyone share their copies of tac/eng/sci team among the rest. It's an infinitely more efficient and effective way to go about things.

My solution is to lower the GCD on differing team abilities from 15 seconds to 10 seconds.

Thus, a tactical team would still put another tactical team on a 15 second GCD, but a science or engineering team on a 10 second GCD. This also means that you could perfectly chain one copy of each team ability, casting one every 10 seconds. Therefore, as a pug you would not need to feel so much like you are "wasting a slot" to become self reliant with clears. This change will not benefit premades, as a 10 second GCD still makes it more effective to min/max into only one type of team ability per player in almost all situations. For the same reason, this change will not make healing more powerful, except to those who need it the most. This change will not decrease depth, and in fact may increase it by creating a greater variety in viable builds.

Is this going to put pugs on equal footing with premades as far as clears are concerned? No. But it will move things a lot closer together. This is extremely low hanging fruit and Cryptic would do well to reach for it. For far less work than the EPtX change is going to take, you could institute a change that only has positive balance ramifications across the board.

Because I know you're eventually going to stumble across this -- Bort, can I get your honest feedback on this proposed change?
Behold, The Jorf Guide
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,482
# 2
04-12-2013, 11:28 PM
Not going to happen. PuGs will always and forver be PuGs stomped, that is the will of the chance Gods.
I want an official persistent officer title.
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@haudace
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Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,007
# 3
04-13-2013, 02:01 AM
I would argue that given the present state of EPTx on Tribble, that it may be worth considering eliminating the shared team cooldowns entirely.

Otherwise, cruisers are basically completely unable to use anything other than EPTS1. The higher level abilities simply result in two or even three unusable ensign powers, because the Engineering Boff Power section has precisely two options: EPTx and ET. You can only pick 1 type of EPTx, and for cruisers, that has to be EPTS, or you explode instantly, as you cannot run or dodge. In fact, any EPTxN, where N > 1, is now unusable, because WHAT THE HELL DO YOU DO WITH YOUR ENGINEERING ENSIGNS? Other than EPTx, the only other option is ET!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 4
04-13-2013, 08:48 AM
The mutual cooldown on different team abilities should be ZERO. They have nothing in common except the word 'team', and they are not even team-wide.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,061
# 5
04-13-2013, 09:02 AM
we've talked about this before jorf,

great proposal, and i believe it would help gameplay for all.

have fun kill bad guys
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,523
# 6
04-13-2013, 10:46 AM
would almost make it appealing to have 1 of each, totally agree on this
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 7
04-13-2013, 11:11 AM
Why do they need cooldowns at all?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,523
# 8
04-13-2013, 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkfader1988 View Post
Why do they need cooldowns at all?
for the same reason EPtS needs a CRF size hole in its coverage now
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 876
# 9
04-13-2013, 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doffingcomrade View Post
I would argue that given the present state of EPTx on Tribble, that it may be worth considering eliminating the shared team cooldowns entirely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by naevius View Post
The mutual cooldown on different team abilities should be ZERO. They have nothing in common except the word 'team', and they are not even team-wide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkfader1988 View Post
Why do they need cooldowns at all?
Silly people.

No shared GCD at all would result in a massive increase in healing power. Imagine a team with three healers that all have two copies of tac team, two copies of engineering team, and two copies of science team, being free to spam them whenever they wanted. Not only would removing the shared GCD completely break balance, it would also increase the gap between premades and pugs (making it impossible for a good pug team to ever get a kill against even an average premade) and decrease depth -- every single team member would equip two tactical teams, defeating the need to send them as cross heals.

Simply put, 0s GCD would be a disaster, bordering on the single worst change Cryptic could possibly make.

5s GCD is still a bad idea. On my double sci team healer for example, I would then be able to carry two tactical teams and fire them off five seconds after I cast my science teams without degrading the uptime of my science teams one bit.

10s GCD is harmless. It helps pugs out, gives better balance, and has no possibility of incurring negative balance implications or massive healing power creep. On my premade healer I can't take two copies of science and tactical team without the GCD getting in the way too much to be worth it. Pug guys who feel obligated to carry one of each team, or even two different team abilities, benefit.
Behold, The Jorf Guide

Last edited by hurleybird; 04-13-2013 at 11:42 AM.
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 242
# 10
04-13-2013, 01:31 PM
I agree with the OP but while we are on the subject of Team ablitys why is it that tac team has so many more perks to it then sci team and eng team. I mean it boost weapons damage clears BP and FoMM, and redistributes shields, all sci team dose is clear sci debuffs and a small shield heal and all eng team dose is clear power debuffs and give a simi small hull heal... Also why dose tac team redistributes shields, Isn't shields what SCI ships are good at so why dosent sci team do that. I remember in S1/2 before people found out they could double up on tac team how different things where. I've just always wondered why that was.
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