Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,022
# 71
04-12-2013, 06:34 AM
So, you are more about proving the OP wrong then anything...

Carry on...

Edit: For the record, I wasn't really talking about you, just the general tendency for people to call out perfectly functioning ships as useless because they can't make them work.

If you think the Bort is useless, you are wrong. If you want to debate its absolute perfect min/maxing, you can do that with any ship and slant the math in the direction you would like. I know, I can do it too.
Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard

Last edited by kimmym; 04-12-2013 at 06:37 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,344
# 72
04-12-2013, 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
So, you are more about proving the OP wrong then anything...

Carry on...

Edit: For the record, I wasn't really talking about you, just the general tendency for people to call out perfectly functioning ships as useless because they can't make them work.

If you think the Bort is useless, you are wrong. If you want to debate its absolute perfect min/maxing, you can do that with any ship and slant the math in the direction you would like. I know, I can do it too.
It isn't all that fun to play. It is hard to get used to.
It could have been done better.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 73
04-12-2013, 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
So, you are more about proving the OP wrong then anything...
Yes, when he's advocating spending $50 based on wildly inaccurate claims. He's claiming that the Hoh'sus does, literally, 1000 times the dps it is capable of. This community is here to support dissemination of accurate information in the absence of things like decent in-game resources or the ability to buy ships on Tribble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
If you think the Bort is useless, you are wrong. If you want to debate its absolute perfect min/maxing, you can do that with any ship and slant the math in the direction you would like. I know, I can do it too.
Please do. Prove that the Bort is a min/maxxers dream. Because those of us who fly red were dreaming of a KDF flagship that really was. If we missed it, please draw my attention to it.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,022
# 74
04-12-2013, 07:00 AM
Firstly, for all your obsession on the smallest of DPS stats, you neglect to mention the major difference, tankyness.

You seem to act as tho the tiniest of DPS stat differences completely negate the fact that there ain't no day that your precious Florcha will tank better.

Oppps! "Tanking is useless!!!" No. That is a false concept as well. Take an over geared ship into a weak event and tanking is useless. Take the same ship into a HO or NWS and all that tanking suddenly shines.

Whatever... I'm not looking to change your mind, it was never my goal. You are sure the ship is junk, then to you it is.

And if some fool reads that a Ho'sus does that much its on them if they believe it... lols....
Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,459
# 75
04-12-2013, 07:00 AM
Or, to bypass all the philosophy, let's just get some Borts and Jem Dreadnaughts together in a mission and see who ends up doing more damage.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,022
# 76
04-12-2013, 07:31 AM
I figure a well flown dread carrier would out DPS the snot out of a bort. And most other things. That is the nature of carriers. They do whatever damage they are capable of, and then even more on top with pets.

But that dread carrier, for all its size and DPS, is going to blow up first under heavy, sustained fire. All those tac abilities come at a cost.

But... a lobi ship out performing a c-store ship? Who would have thought that? /roll eyes. That is kinda their point, or who would invest what it takes to get one, when for $50 you can just pick up a bort?

That, and to be honest, most people flying a dread carrier are really bad... Like really bad... Like I double their DPS in my Atrox bad... I don't know why really.
Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
# 77
04-12-2013, 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
Firstly, for all your obsession on the smallest of DPS stats, you neglect to mention the major difference, tankyness.

You seem to act as tho the tiniest of DPS stat differences completely negate the fact that there ain't no day that your precious Florcha will tank better.

Oppps! "Tanking is useless!!!" No. That is a false concept as well. Take an over geared ship into a weak event and tanking is useless. Take the same ship into a HO or NWS and all that tanking suddenly shines.

Whatever... I'm not looking to change your mind, it was never my goal. You are sure the ship is junk, then to you it is.

And if some fool reads that a Ho'sus does that much its on them if they believe it... lols....
First the quote response:
To be honest, and it may be a case of just plain blindness on my part, I haven't noticed anyone mentioning the tanking side of the bort.

Now the general response:
I have noticed some people posting about how their bort can destroy jem dreads, and oddy's, amongst other ships with, on one occasion, mixed weapon types on a very slow turning ship. If those statements are true, more power to them, but enlighten us as to ~How Exactly~ this is being done. Don't just spout math, provide some kind of proof in the shape of parse logs, videos, your skill layout, and anything else that is factual, concise, and clearly beyond a doubt proof of what is being claimed.

If this is done, then everyone will be able to see that those bort flagships they have collecting dust in space dock may actually be useful, and pull them out, which in turn would cause us to say "hey, the bort is actually a really good ship, you should buy it" to new players on the kdf side.

I have the bort, I did purchase the 3 pack, I find the consoles to be fun, with the auto cannon being the best, the snare is not so useful, and the pet is really a joke that doesn't deal out all that much dmg, and is often dead within seconds of it's alpha strike going off, mind you, this is in pve, not pvp.

As a request, please refrain from attempting to insult mine or anyone else intelligence just because my/their views and opinions do not match your own.

Finally my opinion:
The bortas is a good tanking ship, 1 of the best that I have obtained and tested to date, provided it's fitted with beams, the consoles are fun gimmicks, but often not all that practical in the grand scheme of things. The bortas also suffers badly on turn rate, making it unwise to fit it with dual cannons or dual heavy cannons unless you can predict exactly where your target is going to be, and where it's going to try to get to.
The Ho Sus pet is at best a distraction, and at worst a wasted console slot, I have it equipped to help with the turn rate of the ship, but in all honesty, I still like my vor'cha retrofit over the bort.

As for the jem dread, no I don't have one, and after a long self only debate over the paper stats of the dread and the recluse, i opted to get the recluse, which i had a lot of fun flying for a time,before getting back into the vo'quv.
I personally feel the vo'quv with the advanced bops (or fleet ones if you can grab them) is actually a better option kdf side for a carrier
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,205
# 78
04-12-2013, 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
You seem to act as tho the tiniest of DPS stat differences completely negate the fact that there ain't no day that your precious Florcha will tank better.
Bortasqu' Command vs. Tor'Kaht

+3900 Hull
-0.1 Shield Modifier
-4.5 Turn
-12 Inertia
+10 Shield Power
-10 Engine Power

Bortasqu' Command
X, X
X, X, X, X
X, X
X, X, X
X


Tor'Kaht
X, X, X
X, X

X, X, X, X
X

X, X

Er...so how exactly do you have the Bort tanking better?
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 79
04-12-2013, 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
Firstly, for all your obsession on the smallest of DPS stats, you neglect to mention the major difference, tankyness.

You seem to act as tho the tiniest of DPS stat differences completely negate the fact that there ain't no day that your precious Florcha will tank better.

Oppps! "Tanking is useless!!!" No. That is a false concept as well. Take an over geared ship into a weak event and tanking is useless. Take the same ship into a HO or NWS and all that tanking suddenly shines.

Whatever... I'm not looking to change your mind, it was never my goal. You are sure the ship is junk, then to you it is.

And if some fool reads that a Ho'sus does that much its on them if they believe it... lols....
Tankyness? Ok, lets. Fleet Battlecruisers have +.1 shield mod over the Bort. You're going to have to argue that the 600 more hull over a Fleet Negh makes up for the lower shield mod and inability to maneuver to a more favorable position due to a rubbish turn and inertia.

"Event"? Look, there's no way to say this without coming off as an elitist prick, so I won't beat around the bush: PvE can be completed with nearly any build. There's no need to min/max for PvE.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,022
# 80
04-12-2013, 10:34 AM
/lol PvP

Saying a ship is useless because its not good for PvP is really stacking the deck. Damn near 90% of the game is not good for PvP. Most people don't PvP, either. Hell she could be a total waste in PvP. Me and most of the population really don't care. Most ships, gear, and setup are a total waste in PvP. Saying something is bad for PvP is like saying the sky is blue.

If you want a PvP ship, maybe look at the PvP forums... with the handful of people who honestly care about PvP.

Tor'Khat Vs Bort tanking? While I have no doubt a Florcha can tank, it will not tank better then a Bort geared and specced to do so, not with the Bort using its unis for tanking. The bort will be able to recover from more hits faster, where the florcha would have had to tucked tail and ran.

Fleet Negh? Yup, I'd say she tanks better. But she won't out DPS her. That is kinda the point... All those unis and 3 versions? She is supposed to be a jack of all trades.

To me its another case of people trying to turn the ship into something its not. She is big, she is slow, and she is versatile. Of course ships that are dedicated to specific functions are better at those functions. That does not make a ship useless... which is all I said at the outset.

You can have your ship measuring contest, I could care less, but I find it funny when people say a ship is useless when its not. To me it shows they don't know how to fly it.

Edit: The ship you all should be pointing out is the Fleet Kamarang? Hell I don't remember its name... the KDF ambassador clone... /drool...
Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard

Last edited by kimmym; 04-12-2013 at 11:20 AM.
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