Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 488
# 41
04-09-2013, 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
The goal is to do your Rep event and then go and do other things in the game. The goal is not just to have people power-grind through 1 event. If they allowed it people would be done in a day or two and then have nothing else to work toward.
Versus all the time gating, which means I'll never bother grinding rep on anything other than my "main," and won't enthusiastically buy zen for c-store ships for those alts (I've been spending dilithium on zen instead, but now don't even see a point in farming dilithium even to the 8k cap).
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,170
# 42
04-09-2013, 12:03 PM
I know why they went with 20 but I would love to see that reduced to 10 hours.

At 10 hours I could get in a Rep project in before heading out in the morning and another one started after I got back from the office.

For someone like myself the above would let me get at least 2 rep projects a day for each reputation system.

IMO I think that if the projects were reduced to once every 10 hours that Cryptic would see a spike in the amount of players logging in to STO.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,309
# 43
04-09-2013, 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by millimidget View Post
Versus all the time gating, which means I'll never bother grinding rep on anything other than my "main," and won't enthusiastically buy zen for c-store ships for those alts (I've been spending dilithium on zen instead, but now don't even see a point in farming dilithium even to the 8k cap).
I would say your issue is game burnout. We all go through it. There's no such thing as one game that's perfect for everyone forever. We all get tired of a game and need to try other things - and absence can make the heart grow fonder.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 488
# 44
04-09-2013, 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
STO doesn't build it's projects like a Subscription game. It thinks like a FTP game, where the vast majority of players don't have 15 alts.
I think you've got that confused. Subscription games tend to have the content releases that allow you to progress a main. F2P has the option to pay to fully setup your end-game character, leaving you nothing to do but roll an alt and do it again.

Time-gating, on the other hand, only helps the "wannabe hardcores" - usually ex-hardcore players who still will log into an MMO every day but won't adhere to something like a raid schedule. There are plenty of casuals who are no better served by time gating than by raid level content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atatassault View Post
The Thrill comes from the content that gives you marks.
The content you're grinding to get through the system regardless of how turn-ins are time gated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by qqafgqegqe4ag View Post
WoW had a weekly cap on the points you could earn
WoW's worst move was adopting the daily system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
It's to get you to slow your roll, homie.
You have no idea at what pace I roll, peoples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redshirtthefirst View Post
Actually, I like it being 20 hours instead of 24 per say... kind of "rotate" the system across the World so to speak, it's not gonna fall always at 2am in the middle of Europe per say...
This is a fair point. I loathe most time gating, especially the poorly dressed and executed cases of it such as in STO, but at least use a non-24 hour timer - it seems punitive that I'll probably need to skip a day of raising epohh because my timer keeps getting pushed back 1-2hrs with every mission, because I don't play this game like it is a job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by commanderkassy View Post
It takes me 10 minutes of work to fill my rep every day. If I only had ten minutes, and there was no timer, I would be at a severe disadvantage next to players who have no lives and play all day.
I wasn't aware we were playing for high stakes here.

Actually, by all appearances there's minimal advantage over the next player, and in most cases you're free to spend cash to compensate for a lack of play time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by commanderkassy View Post
Basically, it replaces extreme grind with a timer because it is the most logical method to even the playing field between the casuals and the poopsockers.
It's extreme grind either way. One demands regularly logging in and approaching the game as a part time job, while the other one is at least accommodating of people who actually have jobs and may only be able to play in clusters of a few hours once or twice a week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thecosmic1 View Post
I would say your issue is game burnout. We all go through it. There's no such thing as one game that's perfect for everyone forever. We all get tired of a game and need to try other things - and absence can make the heart grow fonder.
Speak for yourself, and stop advocating I leave the game.

Is there an ignore feature I can ignore this guy on the forums? I've found anyone who readily advocates people leave a game isn't worth discussing anything with.

My issue is that time gating is no substitute for good content. It's lazy, like that awful Romulan freedom fighter story.

I see no reason why reputation bars can't be made account wide; so long as I grind the reputation once per account (maybe even once per faction per account), and I'm putting in materials to produce the items (ie the same as the current system), then where's the issue? How much longer do you really expect to keep a player around than once through the rep system?

Or is "player burnout" code for "you're done spending money fulfilling nerd-gasms, now GTFO."

Yeah, I read the latter whenever I see the former. So you've basically told me to go f*** myself, in case you're wondering why I'd want to ignore you.

Last edited by millimidget; 04-09-2013 at 12:26 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,143
# 45
04-09-2013, 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by qqafgqegqe4ag View Post
The reputation system. Who's idea was it to put 20 hour timers on that crap?

My romulan rep is t0 and my borg rep is t2, after all this time. Why? I log in. I grind out the requirements in a couple minutes for whatever the three tasks are. I start the thing. And then... I gotta wait 20 hours. What does that make me do? It makes me log off to go do other things "while I wait".

And that's what's confusing to me. Why would they design something to make people want to log OUT, instead of wanting to stay IN?

While I'm sure some people have had success with it, I was getting much better results progressing back when I could sit down on a Saturday and go on an 8 hour STF marathon, even with low drop rates.

I'm calling BS on this post. You "grind out the requirements in a couple of minutes", "start the thing", and "after all this time", your "Romulan rep is t0" and your "Borg rep is t2"? We've all done that, and I dare say most of us are much farther along.

You can still have your 8 hour STF marathons, you just need to check in once a day to collect your rep rewards and load up the next set of assignments.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 770
# 46
04-09-2013, 12:31 PM
Personally, I'd rather they double the rewards and increase the cooldown to 40 hours so it doesn't feel like I'm falling behind just because I couldn't log in for a day.
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Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 782
# 47
04-09-2013, 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the1tigglet View Post
the design flaw I've had the misfortune of discovering is where you can't cancel a goal.

I've had a secondary shield goal stuck in one of the mission tabs now for about 2 months, I got the shield but instead of it canceling it's stuck now. I only have 1 tab to do anything in and support keeps telling me to report it as a bug over and over.

Well I did two months ago why isn't it fixed???
They announced this fix is coming with Season 8 back in early February.

Quote:
Originally Posted by casiopia254 View Post
I agree, the REP system is stupid to begin with. People that play STO can not seem to comprehend the screwing they got from Cryptic with the introduction of this scheme.

I am tier 0 on 6 50's and will forever remain tier 0 and just use fleet gear. I am not going to participate in their timegate crap, nor am I going to pay for MACO gear that I used to get for free from doing STF"s. I would take the game of luck in drops over doing this system. And what is even worse is that once you get it complete on one character..you have to do it ALL OVER AGAIN on another.
The reputation system was designed because people other than you got severely screwed over and over and over by the random number generator. I am one who ran over a hundred STFs before the rep system and I have a single mark 10 maco component to show for that time plus a small bit of vendor trash and two mark x anti-borg non-set weapons (I took photon torps). Under the rep system, I would have a minimum (assuming zero optionals completed) of 96,000 dil, 6000 marks, 100 BNPs, and something between 0 and 20 purple vendor trash items, plus 0 to 50 blue vendor trash items.

Old system: 1 mark x maco component and a bit of vendor trash, and two non-set mark x anti-borg weapons.
Rep system: 96,000 dil, 6,000 marks, 100 BNPs and a lot of vendor trash.


That's a guaranteed full set of Mark 12 whatever I want plus some leftovers. Sorry, I like the reputation system. And it rewards me far more than the old system ever did.

With optionals and some luck add a potential 1500 more marks and up to 1100 more BNPs but you never get 11 every time. Still that's easily turned into thousands more Dil enough for another mark 12 of whatever I want.

Last, to look at this point:
Quote:
And what is even worse is that once you get it complete on one character..you have to do it ALL OVER AGAIN on another.
This was true with the old system too. All the old borg gear and drops were bound. You've never been able to earn account-wide unlocks or STF gear that I'm aware of.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 354
# 48
04-09-2013, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by millimidget View Post
WoW's worst move was adopting the daily system.
Opposed to leaving players wholly at the mercy of not one but two random number generators (chance an item will drop, and chance of winning the loot roll), behind not one but two content gates (attunement, and raid lockout timers)? That's a very strange perspective you have, there.

Personally, between the choice of being time-gated, and at the mercy of a random number generator, I'll take the time gate every time because then I'm guaranteed an upgrade in a time frame within reasonable expectation. Then again, I have the perspective of having hunted Thunderfury for five years out of pure stubbornness, even after it was made completely obsolete in Sunwell, with the less than five times I ever saw the bindings drop I was either not allowed to roll, or lost. My perspective always has been, and always will be, F the RNG in the B.

Last edited by theodrim; 04-09-2013 at 12:44 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 258
# 49
04-09-2013, 01:26 PM
If the concept of time gating is kicking your butt so badly that you literally can't manage to advance to T1, then this game might simply be too advanced for you.

Whatever your emotional need is for an open ended and time consuming system, most players don't share that emotional need. The design isn't lazy or accidental, it just doesn't cater to your specific tastes. Some day when you design and publish your own masterpiece, you won't make the same decisions but until then you can take or leave it, because most people prefer it this way, including cryptic.

Last edited by voxinvictus; 04-09-2013 at 01:53 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 488
# 50
04-09-2013, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim View Post
Opposed to leaving players wholly at the mercy of not one but two random number generators (chance an item will drop, and chance of winning the loot roll),
Worked fine in their five-man content.

I found it way more appealing than the token system they employed in their dailies, or the token system other games have replaced loot rolls with. Now that chance a non-trash item will drop is .0001%, even worse than the worst WoW BoP drop rates, including the super-rare drops (BoE drops were different, and rightly so for being able to sell them on the AH).

Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim View Post
Personally, between the choice of being time-gated, and at the mercy of a random number generator, I'll take the time gate every time because then I'm guaranteed an upgrade in a time frame within reasonable expectation.
It undermines the content, and developers don't bother employing both systems to full effect. Showing up ten times to get your welfare epic isn't very exciting, even if it's reliable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim View Post
Then again, I have the perspective of having hunted Thunderfury for five years out of pure stubbornness, even after it was made completely obsolete in Sunwell, with the less than five times I ever saw the bindings drop I was either not allowed to roll, or lost. My perspective always has been, and always will be, F the RNG in the B.
So you actively pursued a very low drop rate item, and you stereotype all RNG drops by it?

I'd agree that the system "sucks" if I thought it was necessary at all to grind content for such a rare drop. I'd probably agree even if I was trying to farm Hand of Justice at its ~1% drop rate.

But compared to 15-30% drop rates most of the content offered, time gating sucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxinvictus View Post
If the concept of time gating is kicking your butt so badly that you literally can't manage to advance to T1, then this game might simply be too advanced for you.

Whatever your emotional need is for an open ended and time consuming system, most players don't share that emotional need.
I'm maxed in both rep systems.

I'm not interested in grinding it a second time, seeing as the game isn't a job and all.

But there's something to be said for weekend warriors who aren't facilitated by the current system, because they don't schedule their lives around the game.

Last edited by millimidget; 04-09-2013 at 02:08 PM.
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