Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,152
# 21
04-09-2013, 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingmaster View Post
That's why in Ker'rat, you always see BoPs working in concert. 2-3 BoPs harassing a single target, trying to find a gap in its defenses to exploit. The BoP has effectively been shoehorned into that role
SHOEHORNED into that role? That's ALWAYS been their canonical role, even on the show. When was the last time you saw a BoP on the show fighting anyone alone, and not getting blown to smithereens? If this is not how you want to fight, you are in the wrong ship. You can't very well say you had any illusions about how things were supposed to be here: This is exactly how they work on the show, too.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 22
04-09-2013, 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doffingcomrade View Post
SHOEHORNED into that role? That's ALWAYS been their canonical role, even on the show. When was the last time you saw a BoP on the show fighting anyone alone, and not getting blown to smithereens? If this is not how you want to fight, you are in the wrong ship. You can't very well say you had any illusions about how things were supposed to be here: This is exactly how they work on the show, too.
Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country

Took two cruisers to take out one B'rel, and it was kicking their cans.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 144
# 23
04-09-2013, 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doffingcomrade View Post
When was the last time you saw a BoP on the show fighting anyone alone, and not getting blown to smithereens? If this is not how you want to fight, you are in the wrong ship. You can't very well say you had any illusions about how things were supposed to be here: This is exactly how they work on the show, too.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/IKS_Rotarran

in

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Sold..._%28episode%29

Won 1vs1 against a Jem'Hadar attack ship :p

Problem is ... even show is inconsistance on power of ships.

Last edited by xiphenon; 04-09-2013 at 09:17 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,821
# 24
04-09-2013, 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xiphenon View Post
Problem is ... even show is inconsistance on power of ships.
It's fictional.

It's not like heading out to a mud pit to do some Ford vs. Chevy.
It's not like setting up an AMD/AMD machine next to an Intel/nVidia on a workbench.
It's not like watching two professional sports teams going at it.

It's fictional.

So there were all sorts of things the writers did - to move the story.

Plot Weapons, Plot Armor, Plot Devices...etc, etc, etc.

With the rampant inconsistency that took place...yep...pointing to canon to support something never quite carries the weight that some believe it does.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 92
# 25
04-09-2013, 09:42 PM
I find its still business as usual in my Fail B'rel phasics boat but then mileage may vary.....
__________________________________________________
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,273
# 26
04-10-2013, 03:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doffingcomrade View Post
SHOEHORNED into that role? That's ALWAYS been their canonical role, even on the show. When was the last time you saw a BoP on the show fighting anyone alone, and not getting blown to smithereens? If this is not how you want to fight, you are in the wrong ship. You can't very well say you had any illusions about how things were supposed to be here: This is exactly how they work on the show, too.
No, if we were sticking with canon the BoPs would be the equivalent of Raptors in-game. The BoPs would be the KDF escort. Where the heck did the Raptors come from? Maybe one or two episodes in Enterprise, and the occasional on-screen image?

BoPs have always been the attack craft. . .decent attack capabilities, but vulnerable to heavy fire (as in, squishy). And yes, in large engagements they operate in flights/groups in order to maximize damage and effectiveness, but they're also used as patrol vessels, stand-alone combatants, and so on. Just like an escort.
Ensign
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 13
# 27
04-10-2013, 06:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country

Took two cruisers to take out one B'rel, and it was kicking their cans.
Must have been some Kirks without the convenient plot armor piloting those. Kirks who don't know what tactical team, emergency power to shields, aux to battery and single energy type builds are.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,152
# 28
04-10-2013, 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
Took two cruisers to take out one B'rel, and it was kicking their cans.
That B'rel was clearly using the haxed Subterfuge boffs, though. Notice how it didn't decloak while firing. And despite godlike invisibility hax, he still got pwned in the end. Noob.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xiphenon View Post
Won 1vs1 against a Jem'Hadar attack ship :p
JHAS should technically be equivalent to a BoP, anyway, so this is pretty much a fair fight. Even then, a straight fight is not preferred: I distinctly recall it doing much better when ganking.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 29
04-10-2013, 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beefsupreme79 View Post
im guessing you find it "cheap" because it kills you and hadnt found a counter to it.

its a solid spike build with breen 2 piece set, or it was a solid spike build.
No not really, I couldnt remember the last time i got killed solely by a transphasic spammer. Sure on my BoP i got pwned a few times by a cluster, not entirely unexpected if you run with 0% resist to kinetic (And yeah when all the mines blow up with chained crits, total death). My choice so the implications are all my responsibility running this way. But for a Bug or any other decent ship.... I dont think so.


I find it cheap in the sense that its just trying to circumvent people's shield, but its not that effective at all versus a decent player. Team vs team wise its even worse. Its what i call a tranny tickling build. :p

If you know me well enough you would also know I would never call something cheap in the sense that that something keeps beating me and I would not be able to find a counter for it, I die trying before I would go on the complaining tour. The only factor in this game I even publicly and openly called cheap in the sense that its not beatable or counterable, is (Siphon) drain spam by one or multiple sources taking all your systems to 0. If you dont agree with me on that being cheap (in the sense of hard or unable to counter), i dont know what is. Just an example.



Yes I've experimented with Transphasics myself for weeks (After the buff), it was fun, effective as well, until i realised the only real critical spike i could do was against people running zero resist to kinetic and no hull heals. As soon as real teamplay came into the picture against equal teams the effect was drastically reduces and even when achieving 3M dmg on the board often, the matches were also prolonged by an hour.

The only decent use i could find for trannies as a tac is against a total siphon drain team etc where there is simply no weapon power available for 90% of the match lol

What Ive also seen is bugged Brel's with subterfuge running it, they killed pugs in kerrat or even arenas without ever decloak or be seen even. Yap I used the bugged subterfuge as well until i realized myself how bugged they were. But I never abused the enhanced to a factor like this, and especially not with Plasma/Trans. It might just be the total picture that made me feel it was cheesy or whatever you want to call it.

I can play the guessing game as well though, and im guessing you are using it. And thats fine, nobody has anything against that. But everyone can have their own opinion, nothing wrong there.


Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word 'cheap', but perhaps ineffective/inefficient would be more appropriate.

Have fun and Pew

Last edited by darkfader1988; 04-10-2013 at 08:57 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,591
# 30
04-10-2013, 08:19 AM
There are a couple of legit ways to boost the damage too. Consoles obviously, but also disruptors, and the Omega 3-piece Gravitic Anchor bonus will give -25 to kinetic resist for 10 seconds (can be hard to time).
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