Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,219
# 1 Captain's Log: I am a nub!
09-09-2013, 06:57 AM
I never liked Romulans, and I never will. I can never forgive them for the relative lack of content I experience while I wait for the hoopla to die down.

So... I went and did something I never thought I would. I started PvPing.

But... I'm not very good at this apparently. I do well enough until I run into somebody who knows what their doing, then I quickly find myself overwhelmed. I suppose that is to be expected because of the learning curve, but I think I'm reaching the end of what I can accomplish without some help.

I seem to do fine in group PvP. I try to cross heal (as much as my sci-scort can) and I try to disable the group target. Things feel like I'm at least in the right realm.

Things go to hell 1v1. My health just drops and drops, and I try to keep it up but down it goes.

I'm not sure how much of it is my gear... which is less then optimal. I mostly PvE and spent all my reserves on a Temporal Destroyer, so re-gearing isn't much an option at the moment, tho I do plan on saving up for some gear now.

This is what I've currently been running. It is a bit of an extension from how I was running my Fleet Advanced Escort. The FAE was excellent at flying like a BoP, zooming in and dropping some burst and disables down on the group target and getting out fast. Somehow it isn't translating quite as well into a full escort.


1dbb, 3 dhc
borg 2 set
MACO shields
KCB, turret, Omega torp

sheild battery, subspace modulator

fleet neutronim + hull heal, fleet rcs + all resist
borg console, field generator, fleet +threat shield emitter +shield heal proc, black hole console
4x antiproton console

TT1, CRF1, CRF2, APO:3
BO1, BO2
EP2S1
HE1, Tractor Beam 2, VM1
TSS1, SS1

Doffs:
+ sheild power on use of energy weapons
2xReduce recharge on EP2*
Chance to double proc VM
Reduce targets damage with Sensor Scan

Again, I'm absolutely devastating in a group situation. The problem arise when I have to fend for myself. Am I just expecting too much from a sci? Am I doing it right? Any help at all would be appreciated. I am a PvEr usually and PvP plays quite differently.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!

Vice Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,329
# 2
09-09-2013, 07:39 AM
Sometimes it just take a little more practice.

You're build looks ok, but in pvp you really need full uptime on shield resistance, so either 2 copies of EPtS or damage control doffs or something else. Fleet shields help too, although MACO is still great and most of my toons still use it.

I recommend either PvP boot camp, or join organized pvp channel and the Tyler Durden channel and join some premades. Most pvp'ers are great help, at least that's my experience.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 3
09-09-2013, 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
I never liked Romulans, and I never will. I can never forgive them for the relative lack of content I experience while I wait for the hoopla to die down.

So... I went and did something I never thought I would. I started PvPing.
Get ready to hate Romulans even more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
But... I'm not very good at this apparently. I do well enough until I run into somebody who knows what their doing, then I quickly find myself overwhelmed. I suppose that is to be expected because of the learning curve, but I think I'm reaching the end of what I can accomplish without some help.

I seem to do fine in group PvP. I try to cross heal (as much as my sci-scort can) and I try to disable the group target. Things feel like I'm at least in the right realm.

Things go to hell 1v1. My health just drops and drops, and I try to keep it up but down it goes.
First, your instincts at cross-healing are good.

1v1 is a mixed bag, the game is really not well designed for 1v1 scenarios although in general a Sci/Escort should usually defeat a Tac/Escort if pilot skill is equal.

Don't worry about your 1v1 results, it's very twitch oriented and its not something most people will excel at right away.

Luckily PvP is a team game, and can be very fun as a team game.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
1dbb, 3 dhc
borg 2 set
MACO shields
KCB, turret, Omega torp

sheild battery, subspace modulator

fleet neutronim + hull heal, fleet rcs + all resist
borg console, field generator, fleet +threat shield emitter +shield heal proc, black hole console
4x antiproton console
A few points:

1) The omega torpedo is pretty bad, and generally not worth it at all even for the 3 piece bonus. As much as they look weak, a second turret will in fact add damage. The people who tell you 1 turret is useless are the same one's who will lose their marbles at a 5th tac console.

2) Consider swapping to Aux batteries. Aux batteries will power your HE, or your TB making them much more effective when you need them.

3) I assume you are using Adv Fleet Antiprotons. If you are not, then you should be. Either that, or switch to ACCx3 weapons of some kind, even if you have to settle for MK XI Purps instead of MK XII due to price.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
TT1, CRF1, CRF2, APO:3
BO1, BO2
EP2S1
HE1, Tractor Beam 2, VM1
TSS1, SS1
I think you have too much Sci for what an Escort is generally designed to do.

I know you are a Sci captain, but if you really want to bring a lot of Sci powers look to a Sci ship and play a full on healer, controller or a hybrid. (Wells is an excellent Healer/Controller hybrid, no ship is better in that dept).

I'd say that 2 copies of TT is more important than 2 copies of CRF.

You don't need to be shooting someone literally all of the time, you just need to shoot them when the majority of your best buffs/debuffs are available. For you, that's SNB, Sensor Scan and Attack Pattern Omega.

Drop the Sci Lt. Turn it into a Eng Lt. Grab a second copy of EPTS and grab RSP.

The reason why you are being killed in duels is most likely your opponents exploiting the very long gaps in your EPTS & Tac Team coverage, with no RSP to save you and no aux battery to power your hazards.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
Doffs:
+ sheild power on use of energy weapons
2xReduce recharge on EP2*
Chance to double proc VM
Reduce targets damage with Sensor Scan
The shield power doff is interesting, but if you really want to be a damage dealer in a ship like the mobius the best doffs you could slot would be 2x Attack Pattern DOFFs. (Search Very Rare, Conn, "Zemok" - he is not cheap).

I'd recommend evaluating whether you truly want to be a Sci captain in an escort before you male the leap and invest 40 to 50 million to buy 2 attack pattern doffs first however.

If you grab a second copy of EPTS, then you can skip the DMG Control engineers (reduce EPTx CD).

The VM and Sensor Scan DOFF are decent.



I highly recommend joining bootcamp, organizedpvp and tyler_durden.

Learn from the best players, have an open mind and be willing to try and test new ideas and builds but don't let anyone make up your mind for you.

Get your EC wallet ready, PvP is expensive.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 09-09-2013 at 08:32 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 140
# 4
09-09-2013, 08:27 AM
Fellow nub here.

I would say that if you're flying a sci-scort, you couldn't have chosen a better ship. But I do not fly this kind of setup, so please take everything I say with the proverbial grain of salt.

Regarding the gear, I probably wouldn't use that Omega Torpedo. They're slow and all you need is one Photonic Shockwave or Gravity Well to neutralize it. Plus, there is the everpresent shield resistance to kinetic damage thing. I would replace it with another turret. I've never used the Kinetic Cutting Beam, so I can't comment on that.

Consoles - The black hole thing is kinda meh. I would replace it with another Shield Emitter. Plasmonic Leech would also be a good replacement, but you're using MACO shield and these two things do not get along very well (or rather, at all). The rest seems to be fine.

BOFFs - And here lies the problem in keeping alive, I think. You're flying an escort, but you have assigned too many stations to a science role - filling them with disables. I would keep that Lt. Cmdr. Sci, switch the Lt. Uni. to engineering and fill it with whatever EPt* suits your taste (probably EPtS, although I wouldn't dismiss EPtE) along with some heal, possibly RSP.

In the Lt. Cmdr. Sci slot I would use TSS2 instead of TB2 and keep that VM1.

I don't know what Warp Core you're using, but I would assume that you have full energy to weapons. W->X would be a natural modifier to use, depending on the system you want to buff.

EDIT: Why do I have to be so slow at writing things?
Science for the win. / Czechoslovak Fleet 1st Division

Feel free to correct my grammar, I know I can use it.

Last edited by chemist6lp; 09-09-2013 at 08:40 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,782
# 5
09-09-2013, 08:30 AM
Sci scorts can be devastating. My main flies a fleet defiant and routinely out dpses tac escorts. It does take practice and updating your tactics. Your build only needs minor changes. It's all in the piloting and timing of your abilities.

As a science captain you can tank better than a tac escort. Sci fleet and dampening field are extremely powerful resists. Photonic fleet could add phaser proc on your target or just add spam. When do you're in trouble you should try rotating these. If you use both at once you'll be super tanky but as soon as they end you'll be in trouble again. Remember that your science captain abilities have a longer CD than a Tacs APA.

Now timing of your SNB is critical. In team play coordination of the nuke can mean a quick kill. By your self you need time it right. Don't burn it right off the bat bc they'll just RSP and negate your dps. Wait in their heal cycle until you can put everything on CD.

Also the nuke can be used defensively to. Someone buffs up everything / take it away and counter strike. You'll do nice damage this way too and if they don't get defensive you could kill them too. This could also save a teammate who's being focused on.

Watch your target's buffs more. Be aware of your buffs available and positioning and you'll see a nice improvement.

If you want more help hit me up in game anytime @edalgo.


PS... Since I see you hate Romulans so much I would recommend you put a few skill points into Sensors and save your Sensor scan for when a Romulan is trying to escape. If you stay close you'll be able to target them with their shields off. I've hunted many Romulans and klingons this way and had much fun doing it. Also in the Defiant I can stay cloaked, wait for a decloaker that's fully buffed up going on their attack run, decloak myself Nuke them and counter strike. If they run scan them. Not only have you probably saved a teammate but turned the tables and maybe even a kill.

Last edited by edalgo; 09-09-2013 at 11:08 AM.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
# 6 sci/scort kills all
09-09-2013, 08:50 AM
most well built Tac officers in tac ships cant tank a mediocre player (1) in sci scort, same with eng in cruiser tank, same with sci in (most) sci support builds (original idea behind science) what happens to your ship is this, sci will hit with comparable dps in escort, after alpha strike (using disable abilities/weapons) subnuke and sensor scan survivability is damn near impossible. the real issue here is there is now very little point in other builds with sci so buffed and others (say recent nerfing of eng w cannons) and tactical making choice in between 2 tac teams and adding a science team to deal with subnuke. (this tends to cripple what shields you do have) this is only a major issue in pvp and kerrat, cap and hold slightly more playable as a non sci scort. i hope we can get back to a good variety of viable builds rather than multiple copies of the same build w/sci in different escorts every pvp match.
my solution share the eng nerf w sci, make cannons useless for them too let the tacs have their dps i miss tacs.

Last edited by ruttager1; 09-09-2013 at 08:52 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 277
# 7
09-09-2013, 09:48 AM
everything said so far seems to be very good advise and helpful. i would just like to add a couple things and my build.

ep2s1-rsp1-aux2sif2
he1-tss2
tt1-apd1 or beta1
tt1-rf1-rf2-apo3
ep2e1

2x attack pattern
2x damage control or 3 blue ones
1x warp core eng, preferably the one that clears all hazards on use of ep2x, but a regular one will suffice.

one thing that is very important is make sure you have your distribute shields bound to your space bar or another button near your movement keys. that one thing makes a big difference in survivability. if you are not familiar with binds, the hilbert guide is a good place to start.

i use a full borg set and find it to be very effective, but your set up is good as well. if you choose to try the full borg set, you might think about including the leach console. even without flow caps you get something like +8 to all subsystems while firing your weapons.

i've also found that with the borg set i don't need rsp and replace that with dem. as you know the full set also has that handy tractor beam that can slow those fast escorts down enuff to get your weapons\nuc ect, on them.

as has been mentioned timing is key. watch your targets buffs carefully and try to time your main attacks between their buffs and tac team.

anyway, i hope this helps you some. have fun kill bad guys!

postscript; those attack pattern doffs are very expensive, but i would recommend trying for them as you really need as much up time of omega as possible. but you can make do without them. being a sci the ss doff is real nice to have and so is the brace for impact doff as a replacement til you can get the ap doffs.

postscript supplemental: it's good to have a few extra sci boffs around so you could switch your uni stations around. for instance;

he1-tss2-vm1
ep2s1-rsp1
the beauty of that ship is the lt com uni station. i luv to fly the temp destroyer.

Last edited by fonz71; 09-09-2013 at 12:04 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,659
# 8
09-09-2013, 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimmym View Post
I never liked Romulans, and I never will. I can never forgive them for the relative lack of content I experience while I wait for the hoopla to die down.

So... I went and did something I never thought I would. I started PvPing.

But... I'm not very good at this apparently. I do well enough until I run into somebody who knows what their doing, then I quickly find myself overwhelmed. I suppose that is to be expected because of the learning curve, but I think I'm reaching the end of what I can accomplish without some help.

I seem to do fine in group PvP. I try to cross heal (as much as my sci-scort can) and I try to disable the group target. Things feel like I'm at least in the right realm.

Things go to hell 1v1. My health just drops and drops, and I try to keep it up but down it goes.

I'm not sure how much of it is my gear... which is less then optimal. I mostly PvE and spent all my reserves on a Temporal Destroyer, so re-gearing isn't much an option at the moment, tho I do plan on saving up for some gear now.

This is what I've currently been running. It is a bit of an extension from how I was running my Fleet Advanced Escort. The FAE was excellent at flying like a BoP, zooming in and dropping some burst and disables down on the group target and getting out fast. Somehow it isn't translating quite as well into a full escort.


1dbb, 3 dhc
borg 2 set
MACO shields
KCB, turret, Omega torp

sheild battery, subspace modulator

fleet neutronim + hull heal, fleet rcs + all resist
borg console, field generator, fleet +threat shield emitter +shield heal proc, black hole console
4x antiproton console

TT1, CRF1, CRF2, APO:3
BO1, BO2
EP2S1
HE1, Tractor Beam 2, VM1
TSS1, SS1

Doffs:
+ sheild power on use of energy weapons
2xReduce recharge on EP2*
Chance to double proc VM
Reduce targets damage with Sensor Scan

Again, I'm absolutely devastating in a group situation. The problem arise when I have to fend for myself. Am I just expecting too much from a sci? Am I doing it right? Any help at all would be appreciated. I am a PvEr usually and PvP plays quite differently.
Observation?

You need another Tac Team, and a second TSS or Hazards-seeing as you aren't able to run more than an Ens. Engineer. (not sure what your chassis is, seeing as I don't play much with Fed, I'm guessing 'patrol escort')

other than that, you've got a pretty decent build. I'd second the call for a switch to Aux Batt (or Eng. Batt) for those times you, yourself, get hit with a slow or need to up your defense for a short period without changing your power levels-you're in a 'Scort, that means you're on the squishy side hull-wise. (well, for a Fed, anyhow).

for console layouts you don't need 'best of the best' (but if you have the FC and the Dil, the engineering consoles at the dil. mine for your fleet are pretty snazzy, and the Embassy consoles are quite nice as well...)

other thoughts include adjusting your sliders on your power levels and saving your presets, practice manual distribution for those gaps between tac-teams, and doing the goofy little mission where you get Deuterium Surplus cannisters-those can be pretty good engine boosts too for either making, or breaking contact in a melee when you don't want to (or can't) waste an evasive manuevers.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,782
# 9
09-09-2013, 10:48 AM
Now let's talk possible layouts.

3 DHC's and a DBB... Fleet Accx2 dmgx2 are a must if using antiproton
2 fleet turrets and the borg cutting beam

Omega set bonus is nice but unnecessary for this build

5 antiproton tac consoles
Then crit consoles like borg, Tachyokinetic, zero point, Nukara (doesn't have to be all but some like borg and Tachyokinetic are great.
I love the capacitance cell For escaping or just fast movement an Evasive isn't enough for.
Plasmonic leech... Will help your power levels.

Now boff layout

TT, CRF1, CRF2, APO3
TT, BO2
BO1
EPTS1, RSP
PH1, HE2, TSS3

now the science slots you can mix and match for different strategies.
This one is a tanking set up. But you could do...

HE1, TBR1,TSS3
or
HE1,TSS2, PSW
or
PH1, ST2, TSS3
or
HE1,SS1,TSS3

You get the picture. And I only mentioned a few as there are many more combinations.

For this to work well 2 attack pattern doffs, yes expensive but worth it IMHO. 2 damage control doffs, need to keep those shields up. The 5th would be something that compliments your science abilities like VM doff or TB doff etc.

Next step is the hardest and that's practice and dealing with the PvPers... Not the easiest IMO. Lol

Email or PM me in game @edalgo. We have many PvPers and PvE people to bounce ideas off of. Honestly that's how I learned and continue to learn still. Without the R/T the learning curve is harder.

Last edited by edalgo; 09-09-2013 at 02:09 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 31
# 10
09-09-2013, 11:56 AM
Looks like you need a 2. TT1 and a RSP1...
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