Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,217
# 131
04-11-2013, 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkfader1988 View Post
I suppose its KDF/Romulan + Cloak all the way now, prepare for 5v5 perma cloak matches!!!!
Just like that! And I suspect Cryptic want to push Fed Captains to level a new Romulan toon...
K D F - Killing Disadvantaged Feds
K D F - The evul way to play Sto

Adm. Marcus orders: Punish the evul Klinguns! Punish the evul HOBOs! And nuclearize Qo'nos once and for all!
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 14
# 132
04-11-2013, 09:43 AM
Obviously a huge change to the state of the game! I am cautiously in favor of it, because I think it will make good piloting that much more of a factor in play. And that beats sitting in one place, to me, any day.

Cruisers had surplus survivability... maybe not any more.

Escorts used to be able to just sit on a cruiser's backside and pewpew him all day while taking a nap... maybe not any more.

Will there be too much of a gap between tough like rock and flimsy like paper? Will there be too much instant explody in teamplay, or from ambush? I honestly don't know. Needs testing to find out.

Although my main worry is that having a decent baseline is no longer something you can get from a fresh character -- now maybe you'll need all your rep abilities and fleet gear to be able to keep up in PvP.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,119
# 133
04-11-2013, 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eminencegrise View Post
Escorts used to be able to just sit on a cruiser's backside and pewpew him all day while taking a nap... maybe not any more.
I do that to cruisers all the time. One time, I did that to a cruiser with the Romulan Hyper-Plasma torpedo in the aft. Had to break off my chase because I was taking too much DOT. Didn't do much to my shields, but the plasma stacks were killing me.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 60
# 134
04-11-2013, 10:06 AM
My initial thought was OH NO! After thinking about it for a few minutes it makes perfect sense. A 100% uptime on something might as well be an innate part of the game/build which has occurred to me before. Why should the game be balanced around having 2 BOff power choices running 100% of the time? It's actually pretty silly the way it is now. So what, for people who run 2xEPtS or a damage control build with EPtS/EPtX there is now a 10s downtime on shield resist. Not a huge deal. It means switch to your defensive power profile when it's down, pop a battery, TSS, get healed by a sci or extended by a cruiser, evasive, get out of the line of fire, etc. What this will do though is create an even larger divide between those who use more than one power profile and those who don't; experienced PVPers and new PVPers. The other concern is that it opens up the field to more ganking, which I'm not in favor of. It could hurt FVK even more. Sure, a successful gank doesn't even concern itself with EPtS, but it can make a difference between an otherwise failed one. We will see. Perhaps a better compromise would be 25 up 5 down on EPtS? Perhaps even 20/22.5/25 for EPtS 1/2/3.

This will probably force people with the Fleet Fleet Escort (Patrol)/Bug layout to drop their Lt. Sci power (tractor, etc.) for TSS to cover gaps. Oh well, something else cruisers can do for us. Hilbert is right though. I think the price and threat of the Temporal Destroyer just went up. Too bad the Patrol Escort wasn't given the lt. commander engineering BOff instead of tactical. It would make sense though; the Defiant is a tactical ship with a lt. commander tac and MVAE is a sci focused escort with lt. commander sci. The Fleet Saber already covers the Patrol/JHAS BOff Layout. Wasn't the Patrol supposed to be the engineering focused escort? Perhaps it's time to give the Patrol it's own niche. It would also be nice to see the shield mod on the Defiant pushed up to match the other escorts seeing as it seems to have been forgotten when the rest of the fleet ships got balanced. With these new changes it will be even squisher than it currently is.

I do think that this is opening up something for the future. I saw a post talking about a tweet Gecko made in regards to a dedicated hull armor slot. Perhaps we're about to see a shift in focus to more hull tanking.

Also, perhaps the 2-Piece M.A.C.O. bonus could be justifiably increased now so that it offers a usable increase in EPS power transfer rate. 5% is really quite insignificant. With the new need for power profile shifting perhaps it can be moved to 10/15/20% (Mk X/XI/XII).

I agree with Antonio though, thanks Bort/Gecko/whoever.
RHINO | SAD PANDAS
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 135
04-11-2013, 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainf00k View Post
My initial thought was OH NO! After thinking about it for a few minutes it makes perfect sense. A 100% uptime on something might as well be an innate part of the game/build which has occurred to me before. Why should the game be balanced around having 2 BOff power choices running 100% of the time? It's actually pretty silly the way it is now. So what, for people who run 2xEPtS or a damage control build with EPtS/EPtX there is now a 10s downtime on shield resist. Not a huge deal. It means switch to your defensive power profile when it's down, pop a battery, TSS, get healed by a sci or extended by a cruiser, evasive, get out of the line of fire, etc. What this will do though is create an even larger divide between those who use more than one power profile and those who don't; experienced PVPers and new PVPers. The other concern is that it opens up the field to more ganking, which I'm not in favor of. It could hurt FVK even more. Sure, a successful gank doesn't even concern itself with EPtS, but it can make a difference between an otherwise failed one. We will see. Perhaps a better compromise would be 25 up 5 down on EPtS? Perhaps even 20/22.5/25 for EPtS 1/2/3.

This will probably force people with the Fleet Fleet Escort (Patrol)/Bug layout to drop their Lt. Sci power (tractor, etc.) for TSS to cover gaps. Oh well, something else cruisers can do for us. Hilbert is right though. I think the price and threat of the Temporal Destroyer just went up. Too bad the Patrol Escort wasn't given the lt. commander engineering BOff instead of tactical. It would make sense though; the Defiant is a tactical ship with a lt. commander tac and MVAE is a sci focused escort with lt. commander sci. The Fleet Saber already covers the Patrol/JHAS BOff Layout. Wasn't the Patrol supposed to be the engineering focused escort? Perhaps it's time to give the Patrol it's own niche. It would also be nice to see the shield mod on the Defiant pushed up to match the other escorts seeing as it seems to have been forgotten when the rest of the fleet ships got balanced. With these new changes it will be even squisher than it currently is.

I do think that this is opening up something for the future. I saw a post talking about a tweet Gecko made in regards to a dedicated hull armor slot. Perhaps we're about to see a shift in focus to more hull tanking.

Also, perhaps the 2-Piece M.A.C.O. bonus could be justifiably increased now so that it offers a usable increase in EPS power transfer rate. 5% is really quite insignificant. With the new need for power profile shifting perhaps it can be moved to 10/15/20% (Mk X/XI/XII).

I agree with Antonio though, thanks Bort/Gecko/whoever.
Just an FYI, if you're looking for an Escort w/ an LTC Eng slot, that'd be the Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier. As a bonus it comes with a hangar, too.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 566
# 136
04-11-2013, 11:03 AM
Yea, funny how devs that don't know the global for ep2s cool down is 30 sec and the global all ep2x is 15 secs are making changes to the game. Lol.

And total ignorance for any pvper that posted in the tribble forum explaining the geniuses how stupid this change is.

I think that sais everything on why pvp is in such a bad state...
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...

Last edited by trueprom3theus; 04-11-2013 at 11:31 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 566
# 137
04-11-2013, 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
That does not seem to be what has happened:

Quote:
...
This is where they think they have created more choices.

The truth is that they have created less choice.

Their assumption is that A, B, C & D are all equal.

That now, with all buff times being the same, you simply choose which one you prefer the most. A, B, C or D. They think that each of these are "substantial".


That's not how this game works, because A (shield resistance) is still critical, the other three are simply "nice to have".

Resistance will always be more important than any other buff or power because you can't use other powers if you are dead.

Even you admit this, when you agreed that people should cover the gap with OTHER healing. (TSS/HE).

So now, instead of slotting 1 heal power to cover the gap you absolutely must choose OTHER heal powers (whereas right now, I' m running TB instead of TSS on my escort for example).

Again, a point where there is actually less choice through an unconsidered domino effect.

Then, there is this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by arbiterhawk
The gap is 5 seconds out of 45, for 11% - I'm not seeing where you're coming up with a 33% gap in coverage.

T=0 - Use first copy of EPtS 1
T=15 - Global Emergency Power cooldown finishes
T=20 - EPtS buff falls off
T=20.01 - Use second copy of EPtS 1
T=30 - Global Emergency Power cooldown finishes again
T=40 - EPtS buff falls off
T=45 - First copy of EPtS finshes recharging
T=45.1 - Go to T=0
It's not an 11% gap, it's not 5s.

Runaway healing, and resistances in this game is an issue but this ignores the problem (power creep) and targets instead baseline mitigation.

Instead of a resistance reduction which would benefit pressure damage (and therefore to an extent all ships), this is a 10s gaping hole that benefits spike (limited amount of builds and ships).
That is exactly the plain blunt truth! If they would only listen to it...

for the other folks that are pro this change: I totally understand this is routine-breaking change and it will open the possibility for different builds other than what everybody already knows... but this is not the proper way to add diversity in the game. This is wrong since it creates less choice and even more problems for pvp (and pve for that reason). Who won't have any tier resist, would pretty much be at an even bigger disadvantage now. And btw, somebody said in opvp yesterday that aux2 batt builds won't be so efficient... they will be even more now, lol, you can slot that tss right in between 10 sec gap of the eps, and still have it available back by the time the second eps runs off. So here you go, even more imbalance.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Ensign
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2
# 138
04-11-2013, 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timejumpers View Post
I am new to pvp but i noticed that if you are running epts1 at 50 shield power it only gives a 5% increase in resist over just running my shield power setiings higher and using another eptx ability.

With the new emergency power to aux doffs with 3 equipped it is like almost 4 extra purple xii sif consoles and 2 purple xii emitter consoles. I dont see any reason why you need to run epts 1.

The first reason being if you get nuked wich is when most people die the epts actually puts you at a disadvantage because you lose the resist and power level. If you run a higher shield power setting you mantain your resist even if you are nuked.

The second reason being it is so easy to reach max shield resist in this game you really dont need the extra resist from epts 1.

The only benefit to having epts1 would be for shield disables and with human boffs subsystem repair eng team and batteries i dont see the need for this skill anymore since when i do get shield procced it is only down for a second.

Now with the new changes with epta giving bonus to particle gens decompiler and grav generators and these new doffs i will drop epts for epta in my sci without any complaints.

Im sure this post will have people laughing saying this idiot doesnt use epts. I urge you to do some testing first before ripping me to shreds lol. The old days are gone dont be close minded dont trust what everyone else tells you find out for yourselves.
What doff gives this bonus with epta.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 543
# 139
04-11-2013, 12:48 PM
I like the change. I have never run multiple copies of BO skills even for PvP and welcome more useable EPtX abilities. I know a lot of players who are similarly happy to finally get more useful engineering abilities.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,414
# 140
04-11-2013, 01:19 PM
id rather star seeing new powers rather then doffs and complete changing of old powers.

there is a total lack of choices in all the class types of useful low end powers that dont share global cooldowns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
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