Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,661
# 31
04-10-2013, 08:16 PM
People are over valuing EPTS a bit here as well by the way.

People don't insta splod anymore if EPTS isn't up.

I have been running EPTS and EPTE on my escorts for a long time... even before doffs allowed me to mostly keep them both up 100%... and I never insta sploded.

Watch your own buffs... you have BFI / Evasive... Tac Team... TSS... and in general just not flying stupidly head on into a escorts forward arc when your not super resist man and you will be fine.

EPTS stacking has made people super lazy... how many MMOs have you people played where you could have your shield / evasion skill / or Aegis field... or what ever else applies up 100% of the time.

Thank the stars Cryptic is realizing how terrible that design has been.

I am looking forward to EVERYONE having to PLAY this game. Not marco up there heal rotation and plot there subnuke rolls.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 257
# 32
04-10-2013, 08:25 PM
well now the instant kill bops and other heavy burst ships will be able to kill people with more ease... so now you escort pilots prepare for more qq and nerfs to come to your damage when you are able to time a burst between the eps resistance buff. All this is going to do is make more people cry about damage!
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,661
# 33
04-10-2013, 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by omgrandalthor View Post
well now the instant kill bops and other heavy burst ships will be able to kill people with more ease... so now you escort pilots prepare for more qq and nerfs to come to your damage when you are able to time a burst between the eps resistance buff. All this is going to do is make more people cry about damage!
They already did that with no reason.

Frankly in any MMO if the players aren't QQing about Damage... its not balanced properly.

People have this crazy notion that they should be able to tank anything. It happens in every game people don't like to die and get upset when they do.

If a game is balanced properly they should NEVER be able to tank no matter what.

This game has allowed them to tank no matter what for so long that its going to be painful. It seems Cryptic does in fact what to add balance again. So expect lots of QQ... its normal.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,730
# 34
04-10-2013, 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
People are over valuing EPTS a bit here as well by the way.

People don't insta splod anymore if EPTS isn't up.

I have been running EPTS and EPTE on my escorts for a long time... even before doffs allowed me to mostly keep them both up 100%... and I never insta sploded.

Watch your own buffs... you have BFI / Evasive... Tac Team... TSS... and in general just not flying stupidly head on into a escorts forward arc when your not super resist man and you will be fine.

EPTS stacking has made people super lazy... how many MMOs have you people played where you could have your shield / evasion skill / or Aegis field... or what ever else applies up 100% of the time.

Thank the stars Cryptic is realizing how terrible that design has been.

I am looking forward to EVERYONE having to PLAY this game. Not marco up there heal rotation and plot there subnuke rolls.
O.o

People in premade matches who get a properly timed alpha on a recently nuked and debuffed target certainly do insta-splode.

This stupid change just makes it easier to time those alphas. And some ships are just going to be plain more squishy.

The change did nothing but buff up the most laziest players. It's now a full 10 seconds of vulnerability that will have to be overhealed.

I certainly do tank some of the better players in my healer, but this makes that task even harder and will require more support.


Now if they did a balance pass on the spike damage potential in the game along with these changes, I would not QQ about it. But in typical Cryptic matter, they went about a change in a hamfisted way.


I'm still holding onto hope that the PvEers will QQ enough and get the EPTS change reverted.

I don't agree with everything STO related given how it is balanced, but I accept the necessity of some of these evils.


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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,661
# 35
04-10-2013, 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
O.o

People in premade matches who get a properly timed alpha on a recently nuked and debuffed target certainly do insta-splode.

This stupid change just makes it easier to time those alphas. And some ships are just going to be plain more squishy.

The change did nothing but buff up the most laziest players. It's now a full 10 seconds of vulnerability that will have to be overhealed.

I certainly do tank some of the better players in my healer, but this makes that task even harder and will require more support.


Now if they did a balance pass on the spike damage potential in the game along with these changes, I would not QQ about it. But in typical Cryptic matter, they went about a change in a hamfisted way.


I'm still holding onto hope that the PvEers will QQ enough and get the EPTS change reverted.

I don't agree with everything STO related given how it is balanced, but I accept the necessity of some of these evils.
People die when they get sub nuked because they loose ALL BUFFS. Not just EPTS. Sorry but not having epts up does not = subnuked. lol That is just crazy talk.

You are right though... people will be more vulnerable between epts uses... and then they will... WAIT for it... be very thankful to have a healing team member.

Its called cross healing folks... right now people mostly just throw there cross healing around willy nilly... the thought of having to coordinate heals must really scare some of you folks.

Right now the only Coordination we need to do is on the tac end. No one will get in trouble unless they get nuked. So all we do is switch targets and count the time for the teams subnukes to come back up.... its stupid and frankly I think it holds this game back from the next level of pvp that it should be at.

I know we just had a great turny (which I am sad to have missed)... we have lots of new PvP players... its time now to make the game more active and have games winnable by teams that Don't have 3 sci. It would also be fantastic to have a real need for a properly built CRUISER healer. Extends are still best on a cruiser... Aux to SIF... any one remember that one... it used to be a staple heal before we got to a point where no ones shields ever went down.

We have all complained that the engi class is pointless... and that cruisers are pointless...
Now Cryptic starts making changes to right that... and we QQ. typical of us I guess.

PS... I would say that lazy players are going to have to change there game play... lazy was equipping 2 copies of EPTS... taking both shield tier 4 reps... slotting a couple embassy consoles... and flying in a circle. You know the folks I am talking about... there ships are almost always named USS Can'tKillMeSuka
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,661
# 36
04-10-2013, 09:02 PM
A couple posts back I talked about my not that old idea of changing the team abilities.

In light of the recent changes to EPTS....

I would like to suggest this.

I talked about moving all teams to 10s duration... and reducing the global to 20s from 30s.

I also suggested a hull resist component on Engi team to make it more attractive....

I guess considering the new gap in resists... a small resist added to sci team would be ok now.

This might help with some of the QQ... allowing resists to still be maintained at times. (not 100% of the time as it was.)

I think a 7.5% 10% 15% type resist add to the sci team 10s clear... could be really interesting.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 57
# 37
04-10-2013, 09:24 PM
or maybe i spoke to soon lol,is this an actuality?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,664
# 38
04-10-2013, 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
People are over valuing EPTS a bit here as well by the way.

People don't insta splod anymore if EPTS isn't up.

I have been running EPTS and EPTE on my escorts for a long time... even before doffs allowed me to mostly keep them both up 100%... and I never insta sploded.

Watch your own buffs... you have BFI / Evasive... Tac Team... TSS... and in general just not flying stupidly head on into a escorts forward arc when your not super resist man and you will be fine.

EPTS stacking has made people super lazy... how many MMOs have you people played where you could have your shield / evasion skill / or Aegis field... or what ever else applies up 100% of the time.

Thank the stars Cryptic is realizing how terrible that design has been.

I am looking forward to EVERYONE having to PLAY this game. Not marco up there heal rotation and plot there subnuke rolls.
Here's the thing though:

1x EPtS
Now - 15s gap
LoR - 25s gap

2x EPtS
Now - 0s gap
LoR - 10s gap

EPtX & EPtY
Now - 0-15s gap
LoR - 10-25s gap

Which of those three has the best gap?

2x EPtS, eh?

Are you going to gamble with 3 DCE DOFFs for a 10s to 25s gap? That's not the same as gambling on a 0s to 15s gap. Will you just go with one EPtS with a 25s gap?

2x EPtS, eh?

Or...

...you're going to fly around with a Battle Cloak and vape the guy that made the mistake of not flying around with a Battle Cloak during that 10-25s that they've lost not only the shield damage reduction direct bonus...but also the shield damage reduction indirect bonus and shield regeneration bonus from the additional power.

...you're going to roll in premades with spidertanking ExS circlejerks.

...or what?

The guy I'm looking at right now, runs EPtS1/EPtW1. Yep, he runs 3x DCE DOFFs and is looking at a pretty good chance of having that 99% uptime on both.

The EPtS1 provides him with +25 Shield Power and +18% Shield Damage Reduction. The +25 Shield Power is equivalent to +7% Shield Damage Reduction.

So now, during that 10-25s gap with LoR - he'll have lost 23.74% Shield Damage Reduction.

The EPtW side is far more complicated, lol. Let me do a quick Beam Array (100 base damage is easiest, eh?) example.

Beam Array 100 damage
Mark XII +120 damage
Very Rare +7.5 damage
4x VR Mk XII consoles +120 damage
9 Weapons/9 Energy Weapons +49.5 damage


"Base Damage" = 397
100 Weapon Power +397 damage
EPtW1 w/ 25 Weapon Power +198.5 damage


"New Damage" = 992.5
EPtW1 +99.25 damage


Final Damage = 1091.75

Ignoring "drain" for a moment, this is what it looks like - would look like:

30s of EPtW1
992.5 damage per volley potential for 30s
1091.75 damage per volley potential for 5s of it


30s of EPtW1 (where it only lasts 20s)
1091.75 damage per volley potential for 20s
794 damage per volley potential for 10s


Again, ignoring "drain" and looking at firing a single array (4/5 shots for DPS) to get the DPS - it would look like:

794 DPS for 25s
873.4 DPS for 5s


873.4 DPS for 20s
635.2 DPS for 10s


Finally, ignoring "drain" again - what would be the final damage for each at the end of 30s?

24217

23820

Yep, in that example - it's actually a loss of damage.

But wait, what about abilities that modify damage? Say...APO3?

25447.7

25130.1

Still a loss, eh?

w/o APO3: -397
w/ APO3: -317.6

So it's not as much of a loss if you can toss an APO3 in there. It's also not as much of a loss if you can throw APA in there. It's also not as much of a loss when you can throw GDF in there.

BAZINGA! Wait...what?

The EPtS "nerf" affects everybody.
The EPtW "nerf" affects Tacs in Escorts the least.

But wait, that was silly - ignoring drain like that - and - c'mon, Beam Array? Heh, it's the easiest to do the math (100 base damage on a Std Beam Array).

But yeah, it is silly ignoring drain. It's 10s that you don't have that additional Weapon Power to help offset the drain. So yeah, the "nerf" is bigger than outlined in the simple example above. However, the BAZINGA! remains. It nerfs non-Tacs and non-Escorts more. They simply do not have access to the abilities to boost damage. The way Weapon Power and EPtW boost damage...it will affect certain players more than others.

How many folks out there actually run EPtW? Most folks are complaining about the 10s gap for 2x EPtS...

...my main, runs EPtS/EPtW. He's not a Tac, but luckily he's in an Escort, eh? It would hurt more if he wasn't.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,663
# 39
04-10-2013, 09:34 PM
you have to be pretty fricking clueless or inexperienced to like this move. i get liking seeing a shield res nerf, there should be one, but this doesn't do it right

first of all, that 10 second down time absolutely is a just like getting subnuked. EPtS does gives you about 75% of your shield resistance, from power and the bonus. losing that suddenly, like if you got subnuked, is pretty much a death sentence if your getting shot at and not getting tons of heals thrown at you. go ahead and play without EPtS, see what its actually doing for you, its enormous. it being on all the time is the base line, balance as a hole relies on it being in place, yet this is the only change, an extreamly long 10 second kill me window.

this change is a handout to escorts, 1 needs only watch as you EPtS counts down and launch a 10 second long alpha strike when your shield res is at 20% instead of 60%, and you die. slow movers cant avoid and out maneuver this, they can only tank it, and die trying when the rug gets pulled out from under their shield res. theres not a more important stat then shield res in pvp anymore, and instead of a more gentle magnitude nerf, and say another elite shield nerf, all its doing is begging escorts to exploit the built in vulnerability hole. another buff to spike damage, and a move that makes sci less important. all this does is further make this tac escorts online
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 57
# 40
04-10-2013, 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
you have to be pretty fricking clueless or inexperienced to like this move. i get liking seeing a shield res nerf, there should be one, but this doesn't do it right

first of all, that 10 second down time absolutely is a just like getting subnuked. EPtS does gives you about 75% of your shield resistance, from power and the bonus. losing that suddenly, like if you got subnuked, is pretty much a death sentence if your getting shot at and not getting tons of heals thrown at you. go ahead and play without EPtS, see what its actually doing for you, its enormous. it being on all the time is the base line, balance as a hole relies on it being in place, yet this is the only change, an extreamly long 10 second kill me window.

this change is a handout to escorts, 1 needs only watch as you EPtS counts down and launch a 10 second long alpha strike when your shield res is at 20% instead of 60%, and you die. slow movers cant avoid and out maneuver this, they can only tank it, and die trying when the rug gets pulled out from under their shield res. theres not a more important stat then shield res in pvp anymore, and instead of a more gentle magnitude nerf, and say another elite shield nerf, all its doing is begging escorts to exploit the built in vulnerability hole. another buff to spike damage, and a move that makes sci less important. all this does is further make this tac escorts online


is this really whats been going on while ive been away? or is this coming up?



- Red Lantern
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