Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 184
# 151
04-13-2013, 09:02 PM
Hello DeusEmporor

There are some counters to epts which is why its not god-mode, godzilla OP buff because you can use simple debuffs like subnuc, sensor scan, and some damage resistence debuffs or use DEM with plasma burns procs to get past their strong shields to weak hull.

Subnuc alone can wipe epts completely including its damage resistence buff! Nerfing it was a poor design oversight, as if we need one more thing that will doom engineers/ cruisers / science/ cruisers.

I think it should be back to its original (WORKING AS INTENDED) ability effects and duration which is 30 seconds because there are existing counters to such a shield buff and it would disrupt many player's play-style to an extent that their rotation will no longer be fluent and harmonious


So yeah that single ability not only allows me to take 22% more damage before dying but also increases my passive shield restoration by 72% allowing me to stay in the fight that much longer.

You really think anyone in their right mind would choose to use any other emergency power over this one?


bareel is right, no matter how attractive they make the other eptx buffs, they will never be able to convince the majority of players to part with a pivotal survival healing power such as epts. Even I would sacrifice a reverse shield polarity in favor of getting epts if the choice came down to it, not because epts is op but because it has the flexibility last 30 seconds whereas reverse shield polarity gives me only like 9.1 seconds duration. If you start nerfing its duration to be like reverse shield polarity with a shorter duration, then what your really doing is hurting cruisers and heal boats who use powers like epts to keep themselves alive while giving heals to allies at the same time. This new change will force healers to become more 'selfish' in terms of having to force themselves use up more heals on themselves than on their allies to stay alive. After all, what point is there if you can't heal your allies if your dead
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 659
# 152
04-13-2013, 09:32 PM
The 30 second duration is not and never has been a problem. Maybe the solution is to not allow EPtX skills to be used on escorts. Yeah, that's the ticket. Leave the EPtX skills exactly as they are now, only restrict their use to science and cruisers and don't let escorts use any of them.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,279
# 153
04-13-2013, 09:59 PM
It is simple really. If you want to fix EPtS you must fix shield power. Just like weapon power needs fixed for that matter (hence no 130 to weapon power option) because everyone will always run max weapon power + as much shield as required to stay alive.

Because that will not happen, it is not an option, the only clear option is to leave the cooldowns as on holodeck and make the duration of the buffs 25 seconds.

But just for the sake of argument, here is what needs to be done to fix shield power.

- Change resist formula so it has a linear effect on EHP.
- Remove or greatly reduce effect of shield power on shield regeneration rate.

Because honestly shield power is the leadership of shields and is just silly anymore. When you can get over 2000 raw shield regeneration passively you know there is a problem. When your ship can tank over 10k raw DPS with a single ability active while most ships simply explode against a fifth of that because they lack the tribal knowledge to bring that single ability, you have a problem.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,750
# 154
04-13-2013, 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Because honestly shield power is the leadership of shields and is just silly anymore. When you can get over 2000 raw shield regeneration passively you know there is a problem. When your ship can tank over 10k raw DPS with a single ability active while most ships simply explode against a fifth of that because they lack the tribal knowledge to bring that single ability, you have a problem.
What you're seeing here is the effect of the way Cryptic balances the game with what the average player would stat, not what veteran, knowledgeable players would. If memory serves this is why the Sci powers were "nerfed". High end players would stack sci skills and pretty much make those poor borg (and other players) helpless.

TBH I find Cryptic not wanting to put lower soft caps at least on some stuff instead of letting things have such outliers a bizarre decision. Heck, it'd even make creating new gear easier by letting the normalsoft caps be just a little more lenient with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
....you are a bad starship captain and you should feel bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
However, I think with regard to the Romulan Republic player characters/npcs, it all comes down to a finite point:

These are not the Romulans from the shows.

Last edited by skyranger1414; 04-13-2013 at 11:26 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,329
# 155
04-13-2013, 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
In the specific case of EPtS, the current system provides a modest buff to shield levels and regens, as well as a large buff to resists. Its the long uptime on the resists buff that is causing so much trouble... What I would like is remove the resists buff and double the buff to shield levels and regeneration. The extra shields will provide a safety-net when regular shields have already been stripped, but they will not last very long against sustained fire, and they will not provide permanent distortion like the current sustained boost to resists. Once that is in place, the rest of the game can be balanced around the "normal" resists and we dont need massive spike peaks that can overcome.

They just need to sit down and rethink the whole model.
I kind of like what you have in mind for EPtS. If that gave more shields and a good chunk of shield energy for awhile that would free up Transfer Shield Strength (a long term regen and shield resist buff) to fill the role of actual shield tanking skill while EPtS would be more realistically a stop gap measure used to keep you from going BOOM for a few more seconds. Also if it regenerated a fairly big part of your shields it would make Covariants a bit more worthwhile.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,279
# 156
04-13-2013, 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
What you're seeing here is the effect of the way Cryptic balances the game with what the average player would stat, not what veteran, knowledgeable players would. If memory serves this is why the Sci powers were "nerfed". High end players would stack sci skills and pretty much make those poor borg (and other players) helpless.

TBH I find Cryptic not wanting to put lower soft caps at least on some stuff instead of letting things have such outliers a bizarre decision. Heck, it'd even make creating new gear easier by letting the normalsoft caps be just a little more lenient with it.
Caps are unnecessary they just need to fix the math.

Look at it this way for a comparison, if you compare weapons mk X white with four Mk X white specific consoles to mk XII purple for both what difference do you see? At most a percent change in the 20% range raw.

But then you add on CRF and APB then because they are multipliers (attack speed and * damage) then the difference becomes more of a 50% range.

Now that is not that big of a deal and is manageable. Although it is dangerous and they do need to keep an eye on it to ensure it doesn't begin to scale out of control.

But then take a look at the actual difference in effective health and effective regeneration between a white mk 10 shield and a fleet one. Now we start getting into crazy difference territory because of how the math works.

Just fix the math, the formula, that lets things scale to silly stupid levels and you will no longer have these problems. For the most part the math in STO is solid, that is why we have seen so few issues with the rampant power creep post F2P. It just needs some of the exceptions tweaked is all.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,750
# 157
04-14-2013, 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
But then take a look at the actual difference in effective health and effective regeneration between a white mk 10 shield and a fleet one. Now we start getting into crazy difference territory because of how the math works.

Just fix the math, the formula, that lets things scale to silly stupid levels and you will no longer have these problems. For the most part the math in STO is solid, that is why we have seen so few issues with the rampant power creep post F2P. It just needs some of the exceptions tweaked is all.
Whether its reworking the softcaps or redoing their math the effect would be the same, bringign down the extremes. But the real issue lies in the grind systems...and as far changing any of those goes...

They can't really do anything remotely like that. It would undermine their F2P grind systems if they started doing obvious or effective (even if not obvious someone would notice and telll everyone else, that's all it would take) nerfs to anything related to the fleet starbase, the rep systems, or the lockboxes/lobi store. If people loose faith that those things are worth getting then Cryptic may as well shut down any further STO development this very moment. They've foolishly painted themselves into a corner IF they're trying to balance things after the fact, which I personally do not think are doing.

I still hold that what's really going on is that someone with little game knowledge tried to do something "that would help everyone and improve unused boff powers". Then when they tried to fix the fix their shortcomings shone through again and made running more than one type of EPtX ... unappealing. The solution is easy enough to get to, but I wonder if they will not simply assume all the new complaints are about the first fix and therefore ignore this new issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
....you are a bad starship captain and you should feel bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
However, I think with regard to the Romulan Republic player characters/npcs, it all comes down to a finite point:

These are not the Romulans from the shows.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,279
# 158
04-14-2013, 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
Whether its reworking the softcaps or redoing their math the effect would be the same, bringign down the extremes. But the real issue lies in the grind systems...and as far changing any of those goes...

They can't really do anything remotely like that. It would undermine their F2P grind systems if they started doing obvious or effective (even if not obvious someone would notice and telll everyone else, that's all it would take) nerfs to anything related to the fleet starbase, the rep systems, or the lockboxes/lobi store. If people loose faith that those things are worth getting then Cryptic may as well shut down any further STO development this very moment. They've foolishly painted themselves into a corner IF they're trying to balance things after the fact, which I personally do not think are doing.

I still hold that what's really going on is that someone with little game knowledge tried to do something "that would help everyone and improve unused boff powers". Then when they tried to fix the fix their shortcomings shone through again and made running more than one type of EPtX ... unappealing. The solution is easy enough to get to, but I wonder if they will not simply assume all the new complaints are about the first fix and therefore ignore this new issue.
People spend out the nose to get their shiny mk 12 purple tac consoles all the time and their true benefit over blue mk 11s are marginal so I don't think that is a good reason to ignore a massive underlying issue that is now in the spotlight, that being shield power.

No need to nerf the items, passives, or anything like that. Just shield power and its double whammy effect of regeneration rates and bad resist scaling.
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Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 278
# 159
04-14-2013, 07:00 AM
Sorry OP but I think that dividing the abilities like that is a bit too complex; I think ursusmorologus has hit the crux of the matter, the gameplay is currently too much about spikes in either direction, which is fine in moderation but in my current build (Assault Cruiser) I actually have so many defensive and offensive spike abilities that I struggle to manage them all, but I need them in order to either survive incoming fire, or to punch down a target's shields.


That said, I do kind of like the OP's idea of trying to distinguish how emergency power to weapons applies for cannons and beams, but I think it might be better if we got a new ability instead. For example, if we had emergency power to weapons for burst damage and emergency power to relays for sustained damage. It's not an easy thing to divide though, as I currently get a lot of mileage from emergency power to weapons when used to power a beam overload.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 158
# 160
04-14-2013, 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
New tribble changes have both the timer and duration be 20 seconds.

Thing is, that only makes escorts insanely more powerful. The emg to wep change is dramatic. The damage buff lasts for 20 seconds and it can be perma-dual cycled and stacked on top of the other perma-dual cycled atk omega? So... much... FAIL.
Yeah, with the huge buff to EPtW I don't think Escorts will run EPtS anymore because most of their damage mitigation comes from Defense.

That being said, I stand by my statement that the Defense algorithm needs to be rewritten to decrease its effectiveness.
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