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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,441
# 11
04-10-2013, 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pantsmaster916 View Post
C'mon... 3 different threads on this already?
There's more than three, no? And it's getting damn complicated to follow them...meh.

It's also confusing because of various things being said in each one that contradicts things said in others. Good stuff...good stuff.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,722
# 12
04-10-2013, 06:04 PM
The changes to EPTS are extreme to say the least.

It makes more sense to upgrade the other powers to 30 seconds, then you can adjust as it makes sense.

Giving a huge 10 second gap in resistance coverage is just going to make people overheal to account for that.

It's almost like they want Escorts to be even more powerful in this game.

If this change turns out how I expect it to be, then it's a good thing I have another backup game that I'm playing.


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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,622
# 13
04-10-2013, 06:09 PM
its not just the 18%/24%/30%, or what ever it is anymore, that you lose for 10 seconds, its all the res you get from your power level droping too.

most ships seem to operate with about 40% res to 65% res, in some cases caping out at 76% with elite resA/B shields and useing EPtS3, or a lower grade of of EPtS and a TSS. this is a problem frankly, the ease of shield res buffing is completely out of hand, the elite shields are the worst item ever introduced into the game. a general nerf is needed, not a gaping hole of death. theres enough of a yoyo problem already.

for 10 seconds you will be lucky to have between 15% res, and 30% res for those 10 seconds. every good escort player will simply kill everything in that extreamly long 10 second window with basically 0 trouble. the entire duration of CRF is 10 seconds afterall, and they wont even need all 10 seconds.

yes i have a way of knowing my exact shield res, and anyone else's exact shield res.

YOU CANT PUT A HUGE HOLE IN SHIELD RES FOR AN ENTIRE 10 SECONDS.


its a branding problem. instead drop the 'emergency' from 'emergence power to'. make it just 'power to weapons' or 'power to shields'. its excess power your ship generates, waiting for you to distribute as you see fit, on top of the basic power generation. ships are powered by both the M/AM warp core and the fusion reactors that are hooked directly to the impulse engines. the 'power to' skills could be power from those impulse generators. every ship has at least 2 impulse engines, so you can double up 2 different types of 'power to' abilities. warp core potential and efficiency just effect the warp core generated 200 base power, so it all works out perfectly for a fluff explanation of whats happening.


so, the current res buff from EPtS, those should proboly be halved. let all the bonuses run for all 30 seconds, let thier be 0 down time, and keep those new changes as is. again for all 30 seconds. for all intents and purposes, these are passive skills you have to refresh, and thats ok.



here's another thought, sci ships have innate subsytem targeting, maybe give cruisers innate emergency power too skills. those can actual be emergency power, say a +20 boost to 1 of the 4 subsystems, with a 2 minute cooldown. all completely separate from the now called 'power to' abilities. could think up something for escorts to maybe, but frankly they dont need or deserve some inate extra like this. they are already the bast chassis of ship by far. if you gave the patrol escort the assault cruisers station setup, it would be a hugely better assault cruiser then the current assault cruiser.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,441
# 14
04-10-2013, 06:11 PM
This is without DCE DOFFs.

EPtS1 & EPtW1

00s EPtS1 (45s CD)
15s triggered CD wears off, EPtW1 (45s CD)
20s EPtS1 buff wears off
35s EPtW1 buff wears off
45s EPtS1 CD wears off, EPtS1 (45s CD)
60s triggered CD wears off/EPtW1 CD wears off, EPtW1 (45s CD)

2x EPtS1

00s EPtS1A (45s CD)
20s EPtS1A buff wears off
30s triggered CD wears off, EPtS1B (45s CD)
50s EPtS1B buff wears off
60s triggered CD wears off, EPtS1A (45s CD)

/cough

There appears to be a lot of discussion about the 2x EPtS and the 10s gap. Yep, there's a 10s gap.

What about the 25s gap for using two different EptX abilities though?

Well, you could use 3x DCE DOFFs and gamble at them reducing the CD, eh? Say you had perfect reduction...just for this example:

EPtS1 & EPtW1

00s EPtS1 (30s CD)
15s triggered CD wears off, EPtW1 (30s CD)
20s EPtS1 buff wears off
30s triggered CD wears off/EPtS1 CD wears off, EPtS1 (30s CD)
35s EPtW1 buff wears off
45s triggered CD wears off/EPtW1 CD wears off, EPtW1 (30s CD)
50s EPtS1 buff wears off
60s triggered CD wears off/EPtS1 CD wears off, EPtS1 (30s CD)

Again, that's with at least one of the DOFFs getting a proc (100% chance /cough) to reduce the CD.

So you can 2x EPtX for a 10s gap or you can run two different EPtX w/ DCE DOFFs to gamble on a 10-25s gap.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
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Last edited by virusdancer; 04-10-2013 at 06:52 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 270
# 15
04-10-2013, 06:18 PM
EptW: Good change.
EptE: Good change.
EptA: Good change.

EptS duration change: Bad bad change.

Ill keep it simple. It brutally punishes ships like cruisers, and carriers which lack the maneuverability to disengage from combat or focus fire situations. There is no current way to midigate that level of opening to spike damage.

The abilities need to rotate as they were, or some sort of change needs to be made to these slower ships to absorb the high levels of damage that occurs in PvP.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 765
# 16
04-10-2013, 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
its not just the 18%/24%/30%, or what ever it is anymore, that you lose for 10 seconds, its all the res you get from your power level droping too.

most ships seem to operate with about 40% res to 65% res, in some cases caping out at 76% with elite resA/B shields and useing EPtS3, or a lower grade of of EPtS and a TSS. this is a problem frankly, the ease of shield res buffing is completely out of hand, the elite shields are the worst item ever introduced into the game. a general nerf is needed, not a gaping hole of death. theres enough of a yoyo problem already.

for 10 seconds you will be lucky to have between 15% res, and 30% res for those 10 seconds. every good escort player will simply kill everything in that extreamly long 10 second window with basically 0 trouble. the entire duration of CRF is 10 seconds afterall, and they wont even need all 10 seconds.

yes i have a way of knowing my exact shield res, and anyone else's exact shield res.

YOU CANT PUT A HUGE HOLE IN SHIELD RES FOR AN ENTIRE 10 SECONDS.


its a branding problem. instead drop the 'emergency' from 'emergence power to'. make it just 'power to weapons' or 'power to shields'. its excess power your ship generates, waiting for you to distribute as you see fit, on top of the basic power generation. ships are powered by both the M/AM warp core and the fusion reactors that are hooked directly to the impulse engines. the 'power to' skills could be power from those impulse generators. every ship has at least 2 impulse engines, so you can double up 2 different types of 'power to' abilities. warp core potential and efficiency just effect the warp core generated 200 base power, so it all works out perfectly for a fluff explanation of whats happening.


so, the current res buff from EPtS, those should proboly be halved. let all the bonuses run for all 30 seconds, let thier be 0 down time, and keep those new changes as is. again for all 30 seconds. for all intents and purposes, these are passive skills you have to refresh, and thats ok.



here's another thought, sci ships have innate subsytem targeting, maybe give cruisers innate emergency power too skills. those can actual be emergency power, say a +20 boost to 1 of the 4 subsystems, with a 2 minute cooldown. all completely separate from the now called 'power to' abilities. could think up something for escorts to maybe, but frankly they dont need or deserve some inate extra like this. they are already the bast chassis of ship by far. if you gave the patrol escort the assault cruisers station setup, it would be a hugely better assault cruiser then the current assault cruiser.
Listen to this guy.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 757
# 17
04-10-2013, 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
Please leave your feedback about these changes in this thread, including results of any testing. The systems team will be checking in on this thread often and will read and consider your feedback.
In that case I shall reiterate here what I said in the tribble change log thread.



I'm a cruiser flying engineering captain, and like it, so my opinions are from that perspective.

I like the buff these emergency powers have gotten:
- EPtW will finally be something quite useful instead of a quick 5 second burst. Adds to the pressure damage we're supposed to have.
- EPtE might actually be worth trying out again.
- EPtA the extra buff to sci damage types is a nice touch

EPtS I'm not liking this too much. My suggestion would be:
Make EPtS1 last 15 seconds, EPtS2, last 20 seconds, EPtS3 last 25 seconds.
Or something to that effect.

Only then can cruisers or ships with heavier engy focus be able to have longer resist up times. nerfs non engy ships, keeps engy focused ships in good shape.

I'd possibly also add that time scaling mechanic to EPtW too, so escorts benefit less from it. Could actually just apply that mechanic to all the emergency powers imo.
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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,623
# 18
04-10-2013, 09:14 PM
Great chanages.

Thanks for having the courage to try it... and I really hope it holds long enough to implement it.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 19
04-10-2013, 09:23 PM
I've already left quite a bit of feedback in the tribble notes thread, but just a few questions.


Were these changes originally made with the assumption that there would be at worst a 2.5s gap in coverage?

How does that stand now, that it's been pointed out to actually be a 10s gap?



Why are "yo-yo" mechanics where something is either ON (HIGH) or OFF (ZERO) seemingly the preferred design as opposed to something being always on at a moderate level?


Why are you targeting baseline mechanics, such as Emergency Power cycling (and their design leads them to be cycled, not held in reserve) as opposed to targeting other runaway resistances/gear/rep passives?



Are you guys planning on re-balancing the entire system?

Because TT / EPTS are the foundation on which all survivability is based.

Change those, and you need to seriously re-evaluate the rest of the endgame.

Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 41
# 20
04-10-2013, 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
great Chanages.

Thanks For Having The Courage To Try It... And I Really Hope It Holds Long Enough To Implement It.
Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong.......
Dev Listen Up Cause I Am Only Going Say This Once Your Propsed Change Is Going Break Your Game Go Back To The Drawing Board>>>>>>>mkay....


As much as i dont like to agree with Pandas "Are you guys planning on re-balancing the entire system?

Because TT / EPTS are the foundation on which all survivability is based.

Change those, and you need to seriously re-evaluate the rest of the endgame."
hes wright you start messing with that you better be rebalanceing everything you sure you wana open that can of worms??
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Last edited by chorkswald; 04-10-2013 at 10:10 PM.
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