Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,489
# 231
04-18-2013, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by graleron View Post
The thing is, this change damages cruisers in both PvE and PvP. There's really no need to get embroiled in arguments over PvE's need to optimize damage or PvPs mindset of creating builds that play on synergies and strengths. In both instances, cruisers get diminished more than other classes.
On the contrary, I think it's important to remember that a majority of players are doing PVE, so making comments that the only way this hurts cruisers is by reducing their survivability is casting too small a net on this issue. The changes also hurts cruiser firepower, because now they're going to have 20 less points of weapon power to shoot with, or they're going to be forced to have 10-second down times of enfeeblement between concentrating on weapon or shield power. My existing Holodeck battle cruisers do very respectable damage, and I've worked hard on building my ships and tactics to accomplish that without resorting to exploity gimmicks, and having that extra 20 weapon power is pretty darn important.

I don't want to see PVP's issues with the system get all the attention, because the needs of PVE are different and just as important. That's where I'm coming from. And why I posted this which has unfortunately fallen out of popular discussion. Nudge nudge.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
# 232
04-18-2013, 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
On the contrary, I think it's important to remember that a majority of players are doing PVE, so making comments that the only way this hurts cruisers is by reducing their survivability is casting too small a net on this issue. The changes also hurts cruiser firepower, because now they're going to have 20 less points of weapon power to shoot with, or they're going to be forced to have 10-second down times of enfeeblement between concentrating on weapon or shield power. My existing Holodeck battle cruisers do very respectable damage, and I've worked hard on building my ships and tactics to accomplish that without resorting to exploity gimmicks, and having that extra 20 weapon power is pretty darn important.

I don't want to see PVP's issues with the system get all the attention, because the needs of PVE are different and just as important. That's where I'm coming from. And why I posted this which has unfortunately fallen out of popular discussion. Nudge nudge.
I agree 100% I was simply pointing out that the primary focus of a cruiser is not DPS. DPS is secondary under normal circumstances. This change effects both pvp and pve builds given that DPS is no longer attainable, even as a secondary focus.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,026
# 233
04-18-2013, 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cha0s1428 View Post
This change effects both pvp and pve builds given that DPS is no longer attainable, even as a secondary focus.
Well, you can use torpedoes. Or take a healer everywhere. Or run up AUX power and use Sci for healing but not really because you probably have to replace your ship for that to even begin working (Odyssey varients only). Better is just switch to a sci carrier and dye your tunic yellow.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 635
# 234
04-18-2013, 08:46 PM
It would be very helpful if flow capacitor got buffed at the same time as stull like subspace decompiler and particle generators. That includes EPtA. it should be boosting all the outgoing science capabilites including shield and power drains.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 102
# 235
04-19-2013, 11:53 AM
Something just occurred to me. Impacts on cruisers aside, if the goal of this change is to make EPtX a more dynamic ability, I'm not sure it succeeds on that either. I run a Varanus on my KDF character with a single copy each of EPtW-1 and EPtS-1. If I'm shooting and EPtW is available, I click it. If I'm missing shields points and EPtS is available, I click it.
A little simplistic, I'll admit, but the changes to EPtX on tribble does nothing to change how my science vessel would use these abilities.
It's a little sad, really. Not only are cruisers getting the shaft, but the way in which ships that don't chain EPtX use the power probably won't change one jot.

Am I way off here? If this is a reasonable premise, I want to try to develop it a little further, but check my logic here before I make a fool of myself. (... Again...) :P
--- --- --- --- ---
I don't have numbers-- I have research, conjecture, and feedback.
Thank you for yours.
--- --- --- --- ---
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 320
# 236
04-19-2013, 12:51 PM
Sadly, I think the changes will go live, further neutering the cruiser by what appears to be planned obsolescence.

I am not going to get into the debate of there shouldn't be any downtime for the Emergency Power abilites, because the developers are rather insistent on changing it.

Any ship currently running a single type of Emergency Power to X ability (whether it be to Shields, Weapons, Engines, or Auxiliary) will feel virtually no impact. In a span of 45 seconds (which is about the time it would take to cycle two copies), it will experience a 5 second gap in power loss.

Any ship running two types, will be crippled, and those ships are mostly cruisers. In 60 seconds (the time it would take to cycle through two copies of EPtX and EPtY), the subsystem affected by EPtX will have 20 seconds of downtime and the subsystem affected by EPtY will also have 20 seconds of downtime.

The cooldown between EPtX and EPtY is still at 15 seconds. If it was changed to 10 seconds, both EPtX and EPtY would experience a 5 second gap in a 45 second timeframe.

Damage Control Officers and Technicians (for an Auxiliary to Battery build) do not help, as they cannot reduce that 15 second cooldown between EPtX and EPtY.

There are allegedly more changes coming, that some believe will alleviate this problem. I am not as hopeful. The only changes that could possibly solve this problem (aside from changing the 15 seconds to 10 seconds) would be introducing new EPtX abilities that grant bonuses (albeit at a reduced power bonus) to two subsystems or adding a cooldown reduction (that would have to reduce the global cooldown and that will not happen) based on Starship Electro-Plasma Systems. But like I said, I'm not hopeful.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,283
# 237
04-20-2013, 05:20 PM
I still cannot honestly fathom the reasoning behind the current state of the EPtX abilities.

You buffed the three that were lacking, then pushed forward a new cooldown mechanic that punishes a player for using two pairs of different EPtX abilities while doing nothing to change the state of EPtS in the game, that being it is so incredibly strong you would be a complete idiot or narcissist to not use it.

End result?
Everyone runs EPtS 1 two copies.
http://www.helpscout.net/75-customer...es-statistics/
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,302
# 238
04-20-2013, 05:45 PM
pretty much that

no point in running any thing else or at a higher tier do to the horrible ensign level engineer abilities
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 471
# 239
04-20-2013, 05:55 PM
Hopefully the recent changes to the EPTX powers have highlighted to the devs how bad the situation is with regards to ensign engineering powers. 5 powers,4 share cooldown with each other and the 5th shares cooldown with the most vital skill in the game.

Bad.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 158
# 240
04-20-2013, 06:20 PM
Set emergency power cooldowns to 0 if there are less than two active emergency powers. Might help make those damn ensign Eng spots more useful.

i.e. upon activation of EPtS:

if (epts_activate = true) then
active_ep++; //increment count for number of active EPs
if (active_ep < 2) then
global_cooldown = 0; //global EP cooldown set to 0s
epts_cooldown = 40; //EPtS cooldown set to 40s
else
global_cooldown = 20;
epts_cooldown = 40;
end if;
end if;
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