Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,366
# 241
04-20-2013, 05:29 PM
Easy mode solution would be to leave cooldowns as they are currently on holodeck but to make buff durations 25 seconds.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,753
# 242
04-20-2013, 08:31 PM
A real solution to make things more "Dynamic" instead f the cycling buffs we have now would necessitate a complete rework of most powers in the game. Most boff and captain powers are actually buffs, some with flashy FX but buffs nonetheless. When you have a game design that makes you have 12 boff powers, most of which are buffs then of COURSE it will lend itself to trying to keep said buffs up for as much time as possible.

My own suggestion would be to halve the number of boff powers all ships have just for starters. Mayor re-balancing of the boff powers would also be needed. But before they'd need to rework all NPCs in the game so that their DPS and effective HPs would not be as big as they are now.

Alternatively they could make NPCs be less giant HP punching bags that hit hard and act like players would, so having an arsenal of boff powers would make sense.

Unfortunately I see neither as a viable solution since they both require lots of time and development that would not show a profit and therefore would never get approved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
....you are a bad starship captain and you should feel bad.
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Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
However, I think with regard to the Romulan Republic player characters/npcs, it all comes down to a finite point:

These are not the Romulans from the shows.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 111
# 243
04-22-2013, 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
A real solution to make things more "Dynamic" instead f the cycling buffs we have now would necessitate a complete rework of most powers in the game. Most boff and captain powers are actually buffs, some with flashy FX but buffs nonetheless. When you have a game design that makes you have 12 boff powers, most of which are buffs then of COURSE it will lend itself to trying to keep said buffs up for as much time as possible.
This may be a bit of a quibble, but when you break it down, almost any power one can conceive of breaks down into being either a buff, a debuff, a direct attack, or a heal (assuming one does not count loss/gain of HP as a type of debuff/buff in its own right). The only powers in STO that don't fit neatly into this framework are tractor beam repulsors (simply because it's way too easy to louse up using it) and pet summoning abilities (carriers, photonic fleet, etc.).

The real trick, I figure, is to make it so that there's some degree of tactical thinking that need to be employed when deploying these buffs and debuffs. Yes, players do often attempt to maximize up-time on their favorite buffs/debuffs, but in the case of powers like AP:O, they must also be used judiciously, since a lot of escorts rely on it to break other debuffs that would otherwise end them. Even with Cannon:Rapid Fire, yes, you want to use it as much as you can, but you also need to be able to draw a good bead on the target for your attack run, otherwise you're wasting it*.

With this in mind, I can see why the devs would want to pull EPtX's up-time, so that there is at least some small amount of decision-making that must be done, other than "keep clicking those buttons every 15 seconds." I can empathize with that desire.
What's kinda' funny, though is that, with the exception of causing cruisers to explode 25 seconds into PvP combat and making EPtW-cycling vessels to lose their teeth for 10 seconds twice a minute (and I don't mean to marginalize how much that's going to suck), EPtX is probably not going to become much more "dynamic" for this change.
Some of the most interesting to use powers in STO wind up being the ones which have some sort of opportunity cost (e.g. if I use Science Team to heal Fred now, I need to be sure I won't be needing it to save my own skin for the next 30 seconds; if I use B:O now, it'll noticeably debuff my energy weapon damage for the next four to six seconds; etc.)

EPtX's nature as a personal-range buff which is still capable of a relatively high up-time to down-time ratio will probably not put it into the realm of having an opportunity cost worth weighing while you're in combat. I'm sure I'm going to raise some hackles for this, but if the devs want EPtX to be a noticeably more "dynamic" power, they need to give it a higher opportunity cost-- either by increasing the potency of its power boost/buff and increasing the length of its recharge time while reducing its duration to 10-15 seconds; or by making EPtX inflict a power drain on the subsytem after its duration ends. Or both!
Of course, doing either of those will exacerbate the problems that the incarnation of EPtX currently on tribble is already causing, but it will at least make the devs' goal of making EPtX a "dynamic" emergency-action power a bit more successful.*

Granted, this is all just the speculation and opinions of a relatively casual player. Your mileage may vary. :P

* I am, to some extent, discounting "park-and-shoot" uses of C:RF for this example. This way of using C:RF has its own trade-off in terms of lowering defensive capability while "parked". Stop-and-park's opportunity cost of defense is much like electing to apply a debuff to yourself, creating an interesting parallel with B:O. Of course, even with this in mind, C:RF is still a pretty brick-simple power to use.

* Of course, one way to make both sides happy here would be to implement an amp'ed up version of EPtX with a real opportunity cost and introduce the EPtX fix proposed by Momaw in his thread here (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=619411) as a new suite of four powers under their own name, like Secondary Power to X, Reserve Power to X, or what have you.
The SPtX/RPtX/whatever power suite would not be a dynamic power by its design and intention, but would free up power slots for more dynamic powers and allow for a little more breathing room to consider how to use them.
After all, you don't need every power in the game to be the picture of dynamism, so long as there's something interesting going on and demanding thought somewhere in the build. [Insert cheap shot at your least favorite STO build here.]
“Obviously they either think we’re either brilliant or expendable, because we’ve pulled the assignment.”
-- Fox Mulder

Last edited by miri2; 04-22-2013 at 04:44 PM. Reason: I removed a second argument at the end for space concerns. ... I tend to ramble on a bit...
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 850
# 244
04-22-2013, 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miri2 View Post
This may be a bit of a quibble, but when you break it down, almost any power one can conceive of breaks down into being either a buff, a debuff, a direct attack, or a heal (assuming one does not count loss/gain of HP as a type of debuff/buff in its own right). The only powers in STO that don't fit neatly into this framework are tractor beam repulsors (simply because it's way too easy to louse up using it) and pet summoning abilities (carriers, photonic fleet, etc.).

The real trick, I figure, is to make it so that there's some degree of tactical thinking that need to be employed when deploying these buffs and debuffs. Yes, players do often attempt to maximize up-time on their favorite buffs/debuffs, but in the case of powers like AP:O, they must also be used judiciously, since a lot of escorts rely on it to break other debuffs that would otherwise end them. Even with Cannon:Rapid Fire, yes, you want to use it as much as you can, but you also need to be able to draw a good bead on the target for your attack run, otherwise you're wasting it*.

With this in mind, I can see why the devs would want to pull EPtX's up-time, so that there is at least some small amount of decision-making that must be done, other than "keep clicking those buttons every 15 seconds." I can empathize with that desire.
What's kinda' funny, though is that, with the exception of causing cruisers to explode 25 seconds into PvP combat and making EPtW-cycling vessels to lose their teeth for 10 seconds twice a minute (and I don't mean to marginalize how much that's going to suck), EPtX is probably not going to become much more "dynamic" for this change.
Some of the most interesting to use powers in STO wind up being the ones which have some sort of opportunity cost (e.g. if I use Science Team to heal Fred now, I need to be sure I won't be needing it to save my own skin for the next 30 seconds; if I use B:O now, it'll noticeably debuff my energy weapon damage for the next four to six seconds; etc.)

EPtX's nature as a personal-range buff which is still capable of a relatively high up-time to down-time ratio will probably not put it into the realm of having an opportunity cost worth weighing while you're in combat. I'm sure I'm going to raise some hackles for this, but if the devs want EPtX to be a noticeably more "dynamic" power, they need to give it a higher opportunity cost-- either by increasing the potency of its power boost/buff and increasing the length of its recharge time while reducing its duration to 10-15 seconds; or by making EPtX inflict a power drain on the subsytem after its duration ends. Or both!
Of course, doing either of those will exacerbate the problems that the incarnation of EPtX currently on tribble is already causing, but it will at least make the devs' goal of making EPtX a "dynamic" emergency-action power a bit more successful.*

Granted, this is all just the speculation and opinions of a relatively casual player. Your mileage may vary.

* I am, to some extent, discounting "park-and-shoot" uses of C:RF for this example. This way of using C:RF has its own trade-off in terms of lowering defensive capability while "parked". Stop-and-park's opportunity cost of defense is much like electing to apply a debuff to yourself, creating an interesting parallel with B:O. Of course, even with this in mind, C:RF is still a pretty brick-simple power to use.

* Of course, one way to make both sides happy here would be to implement an amp'ed up version of EPtX with a real opportunity cost and introduce the EPtX fix proposed by Momaw in his thread here (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=619411) as a new suite of four powers under their own name, like Secondary Power to X, Reserve Power to X, or what have you.
The SPtX/RPtX/whatever power suite would not be a dynamic power by its design and intention, but would free up power slots for more dynamic powers and allow for a little more breathing room to consider how to use them.
After all, you don't need every power in the game to be the picture of dynamism, so long as there's something interesting going on and demanding thought somewhere in the build. [Insert cheap shot at your least favorite STO build here.]
I think the problem is that there already is a "oh crap" button in engineering skills that is reverse shield polarity. It can be insanely useful, but has several drawbacks. If your enemy stops firing heavy energy when you pop it, it's been wasted, if you pop it now, you have to wait two minutes, or one minute if you have two copies, before you can use it again. Thus, reverse shield polarity already does/is what they claim they want out of the emergency powers.

If the branding really is such an issue, rename the powers "Secondary power to" or "reserve power" and the tool tip can describe it as "diverts power from non essential systems to engines" for example. But there is no need for a new "oh crap" button, and emergency power to weapons, isn't an oh crap button, it's a cruiser's "Oh please, gods that be!(gods=devs) let me do some damage, PUHLEASE!!!" button.

As many others have said, the near constant up time on the emergency powers and the ability to use more than one is one of the few things cruisers have (had?) going for them, and now that's getting a klingon-spike-toed-boot straight to the nethers.

Last edited by wrathofachilles; 04-22-2013 at 05:46 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 952
# 245
04-22-2013, 06:54 PM
where does this stand now ?? is there still a 10 sec gap???
look for me in game as "Admiral Quinn" yeah that admiral quinn..and while your at it get off muh station!!!
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,366
# 246
04-22-2013, 07:32 PM
I don't want 15 abilities that are all require decision making in battle.

That is why most MMOs annoy the crap out of me. It is why I stopped playing RIFT when I need macros just to play without loosing sanity I draw the line. I play this game to relax if I wanted that level of 'intensity' I would play a MOBA or FPS.

The facerolling 5 abilities every 15 seconds is fine. Strait up passive boost boff abilities would be better mind you (say a CRF that had 1/4th the attack speed boost but always active) but the current is fine.
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 321
# 247
04-22-2013, 07:36 PM
Yea the "please explode me burst escorts" spot is still there.

You can mitigate it by running the 3 EPTX doffs which gives ok coverage of about 75 -80%. It at leasts keeps someone with a BO3 and HY3 from counting your timer and then exploding you through every single heal you have. Other option is to A2B techs and really rock now that it goes off every 20 secs instead of 30. However the JHEC escort will out shield tank any cruiser in the game using a2b and do better damage so if you plan to a2b just get one of those instead of a cruiser.

If you just cycle 2 epts an escorts gonna pot shot you in the 5 sec window as its pathetically easy to line up an attack on a slow cruiser. Extra funny if its a sci Andorian using the shield resist down console. I bet you could get a cruiser below 10% shield resist with it.

Last edited by hroothvitnir; 04-22-2013 at 07:38 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,223
# 248
04-22-2013, 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
I don't want 15 abilities that are all require decision making in battle.
This is exactly my concern with this game.

On one hand I do think low level engineers especially need more options.

On the other hand if I ever need to add ANOTHER bar of skills in this game at some point... it will have reached levels of true absurdity. And I don't want to see that happen.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 249
04-22-2013, 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsurutafan01 View Post
This is exactly my concern with this game.

On one hand I do think low level engineers especially need more options.

On the other hand if I ever need to add ANOTHER bar of skills in this game at some point... it will have reached levels of true absurdity. And I don't want to see that happen.
This, this, this a million times. I see two major problems with these changes, aside from the damage it does to cruisers (who now ironically seem to have their choices narrowed GREATLY, mostly in the direction of Aux2Bat builds):

1. Massive concentration drain
2. Lack of uptime

For the latter, it's fairly simple - cruisers are supposed to be taking heavy fire, and a 'once every 2 minute' ability is nearly useless in a lot of ways. They'll be in the exact same emergency situation not in 3 minutes, but in 20 seconds.

But for the former it's a major problem in terms of multitasking. It is at best stressful (and very un-fun) to keep track of:

* 10 captain abilities
* 12 BOff abilities
* However many inherent ship abilities
* Hull HP
* Four shield facings
* 4+ teammates
* Many enemies, in a few situations needing specific order of destruction

All at once.

The EPtX and other sustained uptime abilities takes a LOT of that attention out of it. To be honest, this IS what your bridge officers are supposed to be doing. The crew aren't supposed to sit around in the hull taking bets as to what redshirt's going to get splattered in the next torpedo hit.

Unfortunately at this point I think the only things that are going to "save" this situation are:

1. The "new changes" being something we haven't thought of that fixes this somehow, but for some reason the devs won't say a thing about it, and we have no idea of wh fixed.en or if they'll make it in.
2. Reverse the change.
3. New engineering abilities, possibly resulting in old 'emergency power to X' being relabeled to 'reserve power to X.'

As we have heard nothing but stony silence and if we could get a dev to talk it would probably be a mumbled "working as intended," short of a riot when LoR debuts I am not overly optimistic that this will be fixed, and people will probably be too distracted by the new stuff for a week to notice 'hey, my cruiser's a death trap now!' And as I am less than enamored with commanding escorts, I am rather discouraged and my play levels reflect that.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,753
# 250
04-22-2013, 11:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
I don't want 15 abilities that are all require decision making in battle.

That is why most MMOs annoy the crap out of me. It is why I stopped playing RIFT when I need macros just to play without loosing sanity I draw the line. I play this game to relax if I wanted that level of 'intensity' I would play a MOBA or FPS.

The facerolling 5 abilities every 15 seconds is fine. Strait up passive boost boff abilities would be better mind you (say a CRF that had 1/4th the attack speed boost but always active) but the current is fine.
Too true! My first break form WoW was when I got fed up with having 14+ buttons that all had a place in my shammie's priority non rotation.... GW2 nailed it, few buttons and all significantly different from each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
....you are a bad starship captain and you should feel bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
However, I think with regard to the Romulan Republic player characters/npcs, it all comes down to a finite point:

These are not the Romulans from the shows.
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