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Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 802
# 271
04-24-2013, 05:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miri2 View Post
Dude, that sounds awesome. And my main's a tac. That would totally make escorts want to actually, y'know, escort a cruiser, and make those escorts much more fun to play in PvE content than the somewhat brick-simple way they tend to run right now (that's one reason I'm not currently flying one).
And as for PvP (which I am admittedly rather unqualified to speak on, but why let that stop me now? ), I can totally see this turning Tactical Team from the current always-use-this power to something which an escort is actively encouraged to exploit.
Also, to make this paradigm work, the tweaks to damage and baseline stats it would require could also make this whole EPtS-chaining-as-a-required-tactic problem a little outmoded, were it to come to pass...

... I can dream, can't I?
I know, right? Let us both blissfully dream of a game in which all ships are awesome and useful in their own, canon ways with true balance where people synergistically team with whomever they want and all ships of all types are welcome because no one is clearly gimped.

It would be like being whisked from our black&white, dust-bowl kansas into sweet, sweet, technicolor OZ.
Ensign
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 27
# 272
04-30-2013, 11:52 PM
Hm - unable to chain emgx back to back - goodbye dragon build ( 2emgx1 + 2emgx2) and auxbat build - and emgx 3 (lieutenant commander emgx) for cruisers.

If there is a cruiser captain out there who see a way to use 3 ensign engineering station in pvp without running into some kind of cooldown issue I would be most intrigued! (and NO! - engineering team shares cooldown with tac team so it's not so easy!)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 205
# 273
05-01-2013, 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by svimepelsen View Post
Hm - unable to chain emgx back to back - goodbye dragon build ( 2emgx1 + 2emgx2) and auxbat build - and emgx 3 (lieutenant commander emgx) for cruisers.

If there is a cruiser captain out there who see a way to use 3 ensign engineering station in pvp without running into some kind of cooldown issue I would be most intrigued! (and NO! - engineering team shares cooldown with tac team so it's not so easy!)
Well, you could still chain EPtX back to back with the aux2bat build. It's just that we won't be able to chain EPtX and Y back to back without suffering a 10 sec gap between both X and Y respectively.

As for the 3rd ensign slot...I don't know. Perhaps a 3rd EPtX option of some sort...
It's regrettable really. Taking in all the changes to the EPtX systems, the cooldowns are much better than it was before. However, the part everyone hates is the standardized 20 seconds duration of each of the EPtX effects that creates the gaps in between abilities.

Now, I really don't mind the 5 second gap that happens as a result of chaining 2 copies of EPtX at the end. But a 10 second gap between EPtX and Y is crazy.

Edit: As a side note, what I'll probably be doing is using EPtS3 as a main shield heal every 20 seconds now (amazing boost from the previously 30 seconds). However, I'll be packing a EPtW1 of some sort, just in case I decide that I really don't need the shield heal for the next 30 seconds. It will be the trade-off though to drop my guard for weapons for 10 seconds.

Last edited by sgtstarfall; 05-01-2013 at 12:21 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,489
# 274
05-01-2013, 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtstarfall View Post
As for the 3rd ensign slot...I don't know. Perhaps a 3rd EPtX option of some sort...
On Holodeck I made some changes to my Galor in preparation for Comrade Cryptic's brave new future. Engineer powers are:

EPTS1, RvSP
EPTS1, RvSP
ETeam1, ExShield1, Aux2SIF2, WPlasma3

Seems okay. Having a reverse every minute helps. I'm less irritated by the reduction from EPTS2 than I am by the loss of EPTW1. I was using single cannons with scatter volley. Very effective. But without the sustained weapon power boost it suffers.

If I were to stick with EPTS2 (or 3, on other cruisers), I would probably consider EPTW1 to recover from weapon disabled condition and EPTE1 to get turned around quicker between fights.

Last edited by momaw; 05-01-2013 at 12:51 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 205
# 275
05-01-2013, 01:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
On Holodeck I made some changes to my Galor in preparation for Comrade Cryptic's brave new future. Engineer powers are:

EPTS1, RvSP
EPTS1, RvSP
ETeam1, ExShield1, Aux2SIF2, WPlasma3

Seems okay. Having a reverse every minute helps. I'm less irritated by the reduction from EPTS2 than I am by the loss of EPTW1. I was using single cannons with scatter volley. Very effective. But without the sustained weapon power boost it suffers.

If I were to stick with EPTS2 (or 3, on other cruisers), I would probably consider EPTW1 to recover from weapon disabled condition and EPTE1 to get turned around quicker between fights.
Interesting. I run a Sovy Refit. Because I have 2 Engi slots and a 3rd as universal, I could make a engi heavy cruiser like this, for example:

EPtS1, A2B, WPlasma1, Boarding Party 3
EPtX1, A2B
ET1, RSP1

I run the A2B build, so I can effectively chain EPtS1 every 20s back to back. Should I choose to run something else, I could always go with a different EPtX (take your pick). I will still be able to use either Tact Team or Engi Team (a choice every 15 seconds) and RSP every 1 minute. Because I use WP primarily as crowd control, I don't need a rank 3 version of it. BP3 is just something fun to have when people are stuck in WP, but it can be replaced with Aceton Beam 3 or DEM3. Maybe even swap RSP1 for BP1 and then BP3 with RSP3.

Edit: As a side note, I was really looking forward to trying out EPtWeapons 3. +16% bonus damage could go a long way to boosting a cruiser's damage output. However, the wacky CD/duration system really has me second guessing whether I should chain EPtWeapons 3 next to EPtS1. Guess it can't hurt to try sometime though

Last edited by sgtstarfall; 05-01-2013 at 01:28 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,734
# 276
05-01-2013, 02:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtstarfall View Post
Now, I really don't mind the 5 second gap that happens as a result of chaining 2 copies of EPtX at the end. But a 10 second gap between EPtX and Y is crazy.
Currently:

1x EPtX - 15s gap
2x EPtX - 0s gap
EPtX/EPtY - 15s gap (between the first use of EPtX and the second - same for EPtY)
EPtX/EPtY w/ DCE - 0s to 15s gap (same as above)


Tribble:

1x EPtX - 25s gap
2x EPtX - 5s (or less) gap every 40s
EPtX/EPtY - 25s gap (between the first use of EPtX and the second - same for EPtY)
EPtX/EPtY w/ DCE - 10s to 25s gap (same as above)


Additionally...

3x EPtX - EPtX#1(A), EPtX#2(B), EPtX#3(C)
w/ 20s Dur, 45s CD, 20s TCD

000 A
020 A expires, A TCD expires, B
040 B expires, B TCD expires, C
045 A CD expires
060 C expires, C TCD expires, A
065 B CD expires
080 A expires, A TCD expires, B
085 C CD expires
100 B expires, B TCD expires, C
105 A CD expires
120 C expires, C TCD expires, A
125 B CD expires
140 A expires, A TCD expires, B
145 C CD expires
160 B expires, B TCD expires, C
165 A CD expires

Etc, etc, etc. You can 3x EPtX for 0s gap...if the 5s (or less) gap is a concern.


And...

2x EPtX - EPtX#1(A) & EPtX#2(B) /w 20s Dur, 30s CD, 15s/20s TCD
1x EPtY - EPtY(C) w/ 20s Dur, 30s CD, 15s TCD
w/ DCEs (100% proc /cough)

Running A, C, B, A, C, B, A, C, B, etc...

000 A
015 A TCD expires, C
020 A expires
030 A CD expires, C TCD expires, B
035 C expires
045 C CD expires, B TCD expires, A
050 B expires
060 B CD expires, A TCD expires, C
065 A expires
075 A CD expires, C TCD expires, B
080 C expires
090 C CD expires, B TCD expires, A
095 B expires
105 B CD expires, A TCD expires, C

Etc, etc, etc.

There is a 25s gap between A#1 and A#2, A#2 and A#3.
There is a 25s gap between C#1 and C#2, C#2 and C#3.
There is a 25s gap between B#1 and B#2, B#2 and B#3.

A&B are both EPtX, though - C is EPtY. So the following appears...

EPtY 25s gap.
EPtX...10s gap, 0s gap (5s clip), 10s gap, 0s gap (5s clip)

EPtX would have 20s up, 10s down, 35s up, 10s down, 35s up, 10s down, etc, etc.
EPtY would have 15s down, 20s up, 25s down, 20s up, 25s down, 20s up, etc, etc.

Running C, A, B, C, A, B, C, A, B, etc...

000 C
015 C TCD expires, A
020 C expires
030 C CD expires
035 A expires, A TCD expires. B
045 A CD expires
050 B TCD expires, C
055 B expires
065 B CD expires, C TCD expires, A
070 C expires
080 C CD expires
085 A expires, A TCD expires, B
095 A CD expires
100 B TCD expires, C
105 B expires
115 B CD expires, C TCD expires, A
120 C expires

Etc, etc, etc...

A&B are EPtX. C is EPtY.

EPtY - 20s up, 30s down, 20s up, 30s down, 20s up, 30s down...
EPtX - 15s down, 40s up, 10s down, 40s up, 10s down...

So you can see where things can get a bit twisted running 2x EPtX & EPtY.

Course, that 100% DCE...which isn't always the case...so it can go all sorts of whacky.


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer - U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser
U.S.S. Endless, Hazari Destroyer - U.S.S. Deogen, Phantom Intel Escort
U.S.S. Naked Sun, Hirogen Apex Battle Cruiser - U.S.S. K'Dyr, D'Kyr Science Vessel
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,734
# 277
05-01-2013, 02:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtstarfall View Post
Edit: As a side note, I was really looking forward to trying out EPtWeapons 3. +16% bonus damage could go a long way to boosting a cruiser's damage output. However, the wacky CD/duration system really has me second guessing whether I should chain EPtWeapons 3 next to EPtS1. Guess it can't hurt to try sometime though
Some folks have done some testing and found that with EPtW1 at least, there is actually a loss of DPS even with the 20s +Dmg because of the loss of 10s of +Pwr. Haven't seen if anybody tested that with EPtW3...hrmmm.


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer - U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser
U.S.S. Endless, Hazari Destroyer - U.S.S. Deogen, Phantom Intel Escort
U.S.S. Naked Sun, Hirogen Apex Battle Cruiser - U.S.S. K'Dyr, D'Kyr Science Vessel
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 278
05-01-2013, 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
[color="YellowGreen"]
--extensive results snipped--
Thank you for putting this together. How does adding EPtS as one of the EPtX's fit into the mix?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 205
# 279
05-01-2013, 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Additionally...

3x EPtX - EPtX#1(A), EPtX#2(B), EPtX#3(C)
w/ 20s Dur, 45s CD, 20s TCD

000 A
020 A expires, A TCD expires, B
040 B expires, B TCD expires, C
045 A CD expires
060 C expires, C TCD expires, A
065 B CD expires
080 A expires, A TCD expires, B
085 C CD expires
100 B expires, B TCD expires, C
105 A CD expires
120 C expires, C TCD expires, A
125 B CD expires
140 A expires, A TCD expires, B
145 C CD expires
160 B expires, B TCD expires, C
165 A CD expires

Etc, etc, etc. You can 3x EPtX for 0s gap...if the 5s (or less) gap is a concern.
Yes indeed. Though I'd have a hard time seeing any ship wanting to run 3 copies of a skill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
And...

2x EPtX - EPtX#1(A) & EPtX#2(B) /w 20s Dur, 30s CD, 15s/20s TCD
1x EPtY - EPtY(C) w/ 20s Dur, 30s CD, 15s TCD
w/ DCEs (100% proc /cough)

Running A, C, B, A, C, B, A, C, B, etc...

000 A
015 A TCD expires, C
020 A expires
030 A CD expires, C TCD expires, B
035 C expires
045 C CD expires, B TCD expires, A
050 B expires
060 B CD expires, A TCD expires, C
065 A expires
075 A CD expires, C TCD expires, B
080 C expires
090 C CD expires, B TCD expires, A
095 B expires
105 B CD expires, A TCD expires, C

Etc, etc, etc.

There is a 25s gap between A#1 and A#2, A#2 and A#3.
There is a 25s gap between C#1 and C#2, C#2 and C#3.
There is a 25s gap between B#1 and B#2, B#2 and B#3.

A&B are both EPtX, though - C is EPtY. So the following appears...

EPtY 25s gap.
EPtX...10s gap, 0s gap (5s clip), 10s gap, 0s gap (5s clip)

EPtX would have 20s up, 10s down, 35s up, 10s down, 35s up, 10s down, etc, etc.
EPtY would have 15s down, 20s up, 25s down, 20s up, 25s down, 20s up, etc, etc.

Running C, A, B, C, A, B, C, A, B, etc...

000 C
015 C TCD expires, A
020 C expires
030 C CD expires
035 A expires, A TCD expires. B
045 A CD expires
050 B TCD expires, C
055 B expires
065 B CD expires, C TCD expires, A
070 C expires
080 C CD expires
085 A expires, A TCD expires, B
095 A CD expires
100 B TCD expires, C
105 B expires
115 B CD expires, C TCD expires, A
120 C expires

Etc, etc, etc...

A&B are EPtX. C is EPtY.

EPtY - 20s up, 30s down, 20s up, 30s down, 20s up, 30s down...
EPtX - 15s down, 40s up, 10s down, 40s up, 10s down...

So you can see where things can get a bit twisted running 2x EPtX & EPtY.

Course, that 100% DCE...which isn't always the case...so it can go all sorts of whacky.
Whew! Really complicated indeed. Things get really complicated especially after the first run.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 773
# 280
05-01-2013, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathofachilles View Post
I know, right? Let us both blissfully dream of a game in which all ships are awesome and useful in their own, canon ways with true balance where people synergistically team with whomever they want and all ships of all types are welcome because no one is clearly gimped.

It would be like being whisked from our black&white, dust-bowl kansas into sweet, sweet, technicolor OZ.
I'll third this. Escorts sitting still was the reason I quite using standard escorts for the most part.

I wonder if you could get this effect by buffing the damage of all ships to the same level on their primary fire arc, so forward for escorts, forward-ish for science, and broadside for cruisers all put out the same amount of damage in alpha, aka, you hit the spacebar and everything puts out X damage in that one firing cycle, calculated before bofffs and captain skills. And put locks on weapon types for different ships, so that if Cruisers can't use duel heavy cannons, then escorts can't use beam arrays. Or maybe a limiter, so that can only use one of two fore and aft. That way, escorts would have to always more around or be killed and their tankiness wouldn't matter as much since it would be more about defence. But yeah, however they did it, a sweat dream.

And virusdancer, thanks for doing that, I've been lost on that change since the begining. Now I understand.
Joined September 2011
Nouveau riche LTS member
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