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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 172
# 31
04-10-2013, 10:56 PM
This change is difficult to properly evaluate, as we've been teased that this might be part of a larger set of amendments. Without being able to see the larger picture, all we can really do is explain why this is bad for balance in the current meta.

As has been discussed, tampering with baseline abilities is downright risky, and places a disproportionately greater burden on the less-equipped, increasing the bar to entry for activities like PvP and harder PvE events.
Vice Admiral Elaron, USS Sky Road
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 880
# 32
04-10-2013, 11:11 PM
Potential compromise: Return the duration to 30s, but for the last 10 seconds of the ability have the effect of EPtX diminish by 10% per second.

You still have an exploitable gap in coverage but it's more nuanced, less binary. The skill also behaves more like one would expect an "emergency battery" to -- spike in power followed by slow return to normal.

Alternate suggestion: 15s of 100% effectiveness followed by 15s of slowly draining to 0% effectiveness if the systems team finds the initial suggestion gives too much uptime, though I prefer the 20-10 split myself.
Behold, The Jorf Guide
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 33
04-10-2013, 11:23 PM
I personally would prefer if the duration would be scaled of rank. Rank I is already good as it is. It is an ENSIGN rank ability. No need to optimize everything so escorts have easy access to it.

I: 20s
II: 25s
III: 30s

Something that does not benefit escorts, but gives cruisers few more options.

On the other hand, there is still lack of ensign engineering ability choices, so still having rank III emegerncy power brings huge oppurtunity cost.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 880
# 34
04-10-2013, 11:29 PM
EPtX 3 is usually a false choice for a good player, because it's a selfish choice that doesn't help a team, though there are a handful of exceptions. A group of selfish tanks (most fed pugs) will always lose to selfless cross-healers. There's a similar truth to be said about selfish damage dealers (most Klingon pugs) and a team with the proper amount of spike and debuff support.

On one hand, increasing the power of higher tiers of EPtX abilities will lower the gap between greedy, selfish builds and properly team focused ones. On the other hand, it makes those fail builds that much more tempting for players.
Behold, The Jorf Guide

Last edited by hurleybird; 04-10-2013 at 11:33 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 35
04-10-2013, 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
EPtX 3 is usually a false choice for a good player, because it's a selfish choice that doesn't help a team, though there are a handful of exceptions. A group of selfish tanks will always lose to selfless cross-healers. On one hand, increasing the power of higher tiers of EPtX abilities will lower the gap between greedy, selfish builds and proper team focused ones. On the other hand, it makes those fail builds more tempting for players.
But is not that part of the problem ? Why should an ensign rank ability be omnipotent and "the only choice".
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 880
# 36
04-10-2013, 11:42 PM
I did say "usually" and "there are a handful of exceptions"

I also don't think selfish builds should be buffed and balanced to have equality with selfless ones. That hardly seems right. At the same time, no skill should be completely useless at the high end. It's a tough call.

EPtS 3 is usually a skill I would call "noob bait," but Naz (one of the premiere PvPers in the game, for those PvErs who are joining us today) has a certain D'kora build with massive spike and general damage dealing potential. Last I remembered he actually does use EPtS 3, but it works on his build because he has everything set up where he doesn't need to give too much up to slot it, and with the amount of damage he can output he generates a substantial amount of aggro from the other team.

The fact that there are a small handful of proper team builds where you do want to slot an EPtX 3 ability makes me hesitant to ask for a buff, for all of the reasons I've outlined in my last few posts.
Behold, The Jorf Guide

Last edited by hurleybird; 04-10-2013 at 11:52 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 37
04-10-2013, 11:55 PM
Well, I wasn't speaking only about EPtS, but generally EptX abilities. Of course EptS is hit the hardest by this, but my point is, why should an ensign rank skill be so good.

As long as there are no more choices in ensign level engineering department, using high rank EptX is nono anyway, improving the duration buff would at least make it more attractive.

Even if I would use EptS III and EptW III for example what would I put to ensign slots ? For a ships like Galaxy or Negh'var with 3 ensign slots....

What should be my incentive to slot EptE 3 ?

It still seems that the change won't help cruisers much. But in the end, will benefit escorts most, because they can at least speed tank in the EptS gaps.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,672
# 38
04-11-2013, 12:01 AM
Maybe, they should just add a shield resistance modifier and hull resistance modifier to all ships, with the magnitude depending on ship class.

For shield resistances, the order can be

science vessels > cruisers > escorts

or

cruisers > science vessels > escorts.

For hull resistances, the order should be

cruisers > science vessels > escorts.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 39
04-11-2013, 12:06 AM
Well, I personally dislike the whole extra bonus stuff anyway. I would tie bonuses to power levels and let EPtX powers increase power only to grant these bonus. It would also raise the power cap with the skill. Should make EPS engineering ability interesting.

Right now, EptS for example gives you two bonuses to shield dmg resistance. One through shield power bonus, the other through stat. It reminds me to double taxing for some reason and I do not like it. Why not just give XX power, that means XX% shield dmg reduction through shield subsystem power.

Giving power would be clean and elegant solution and it would also encourage proper power management. Raising the cap with EP power could also be interesting.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,708
# 40
04-11-2013, 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Well, I personally dislike the whole extra bonus stuff anyway. I would tie bonuses to power levels and let EPtX powers increase power only to grant these bonus. It would also raise the power cap with the skill. Should make EPS engineering ability interesting.

Right now, EptS for example gives you two bonuses to shield dmg resistance. One through shield power bonus, the other through stat. It reminds me to double taxing for some reason and I do not like it. Why not just give XX power, that means XX% shield dmg reduction through shield subsystem power.

Giving power would be clean and elegant solution and it would also encourage proper power management. Raising the cap with EP power could also be interesting.
All of them provide a double bonus.

EPtW boosts Weapon Power (Weapon Damage) and Weapon Damage.
EPtS boosts Shield Power (Shield Damage Reduction) and Shield Damage Reduction.
EPtE boosts Engine Power (Speed) and Speed.
EPtA boosts Aux Power (Stealth/StealthSight) and Stealth/StealthSight.

They should either boost the * Power and not provide the other buff or they should provide the other buff and not boost the * Power.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
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