Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,014
Many metric yonks ago it was decided that outside of lockbox ships, factions would retain their respective ships, and all was good. You obviously don't intend on having Klinks in Mirandas, and Feds in BoPs, so why are we even opening that door? What makes Romulans the exception now?

I just think that Cryptic is painting themselves into a very unpleasant corner with this.

1. It makes the Federation and Klingons less unique. It really does. Most of the game takes place in space with your ship. They're the biggest part of the game, and one of it's largest draws. This is why you aren't letting Feds and Klinks fly each others ships, so I really question the reasoning behind it.


2. It makes the Romulans less unique. I've already spent dozens of weekends and hundreds of hours with the other two kinds of ships. Doesn't seem like a good idea when the whole point of a new faction is a "new" experience.


3. It's going to make Cryptic less money. They have an opportunity to force people to buy entirely new T5 ships, and people are going to be completely cool with that, and they aren't going to take it!?!??! Why?


4. There would be no excuse to not have T5 Constitutions, Mirandas, Oberths, or D-7s. When a Romulan Farmer can pilot the pride of a nation, there's really no excuse anymore.


5. Now Feds and Klinks are going to want each others ships. And is that a can you really want to open? I wouldn't


6. Besides, those new Romulan ships look super kickass. Why would you even want us to fly anything else?

Everything else looks so good. I don't want this to ruin it all. And it would.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o633/centersolace/189cux9khvl6ojpg_zpsca7ccff0.jpg

So inhumane superweapons, mass murder, and canon nonsense is okay, but speedos are too much for some people.

Last edited by centersolace; 04-05-2013 at 09:57 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 150
# 2
04-05-2013, 10:13 PM
I'm not really sure how I feel about the whole ship situation myself. On one level, it seems like a lazy way to get more bang out of a ship art object, like selling the ships with 3 variants (but one hull) for $50. On another level, it prevents too many more bizarre original creations that just do not seem right.

I don't entirely agree that this is a hypocritical move. Romulans in either faction are somewhat operating as exchange officers. While yes you can have a Romulan commanding a Galaxy class, it is still effectively in the service of the Federation. I do not think that this waters down the Federation or the KDF, but serves as an excuse to water down the Romulans before the launch.

Already the Romulans do not have their own DOff missions, fleet holdings, or ability to make their own fleet (including KDF or Fed 'allied' Romulans alike). This is not a "full" faction, but rather a Romulan sub faction that can be created within either the Federation or KDF equally. At the end of the day, you are either in the Federation or KDF, but have a couple more options.
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Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 347
# 3
04-05-2013, 10:53 PM
The only Romulan lockbox ship I can agree to would be those D7s the Klingons made the Romulans buy.

Legacy of Romulus - Closed Beta - Round 1 Playtester

Last edited by malakhglitch; 04-05-2013 at 11:11 PM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,991
# 4
04-05-2013, 11:00 PM
Just pretend in your head Starfleet is loaning the ship to the Romulan notice I did not use Romulans because from the Story POV they are giving a ship to one person.


And I'm no Farmer, I just happen to retire on a farmer planet to get away from stuff.


Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,137
# 5
04-05-2013, 11:05 PM
They've backed themselves into a corner where they won't allow Federation or Klingon Fleets to be able to assemble any, let alone advanced, Romulan ships. (My biggest concern for this 'expansion' is just how many corners the team is going to back themselves into, but that's a different topic.)

I'm not sure where the medium is between having Romulans in a fleet of another faction so that it is rewarding for them, but still allows factions to remain unique.

Obviously, lockbox ships are a big part of it all, but what would be a reasonable limitation that still promotes Romulan membership? Only access to fleet level ships, but not zen ships?(Meaning: No Romulans cruising around in a Vesta or Kar'fi, for example.)
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 488
# 6
04-05-2013, 11:05 PM
It's only an issue because it's the Romulans.

Just about any other non-Fed/KDF species could be introduced in this manner, and it wouldn't be as much of a stretch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
I just think that Cryptic is painting themselves into a very unpleasant corner with this.
As far as I know, they're setting themselves up to release a series of playable races, so rather than painting themselves in a corner, from a design perspective they're actually extricating themselves from one, namely the messy state of the back end of all content.

Like I said, the issue is that this particular group could have been more than a tired freedom fighter story, but I know it was only chosen because it's a fan favorite and focuses on one of Cryptic's more developed story arcs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by szerontzur View Post
They've backed themselves into a corner where they won't allow Federation or Klingon Fleets to be able to assemble any, let alone advanced, Romulan ships. (My biggest concern for this 'expansion' is just how many corners the team is going to back themselves into, but that's a different topic.)
I'm less concerned about Fed/KDF players flying Romulan ships, or even Romulans flying Fed/KDF ships, than I am about the missed opportunity to bring one of the IPs better and more iconic factions to life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by szerontzur View Post
Only access to fleet level ships, but not zen ships?
I'd rather give them access to zen ships than fleet ships. From the cover story Cryptic is developing, giving them fleet ships makes more sense, but the impact of giving them zen ships would be much less severe. Fewer non-Romulan options would lead more Romulan players to stick with Romulan vessels; fleet ships, on the other hand, cover just about every possible configuration, including many configurations which may be more effective than what the Romulan vessels offer, or at least the initial offering of non-lock box Romulan vessels.

Last edited by millimidget; 04-05-2013 at 11:14 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,353
# 7
04-06-2013, 12:02 AM
Honestly, it really doesn't help any of the three factions when we get right down to it.

For pretty much all the reasons you described honestly.



I mean, I fully intend on seeing plenty of D'koras, Galors, Bugs, etc on Romulan toons, that won't be a surprise.

But having the Romulans access to the ships is just a bit much. It lessens the other two factions, and gives Romulans WAY more options than the two previous ones.



Now, giving them access to their own ships entirely, including their own Fleet ships is ok. And also if they had just be given the CONSOLES only of lower tier ships (if you buy them or open console boxes), that would be ok as well.

Like for example, Plasmonic Leech. Giving them access to the ship feels a bit much, but just the console (which is what a good portion of people want anyways), would be a bit more reasonable. In other wards, technology trading feels better than suddenly giving them access to any ship that the Feds and KDF have access to.




On the other...it does kind of make any previous purchases more worthwhile (outside of single-character unlocks). All those lower tier ships you might already own or thought about getting, are gonna get more mileage because you'll have Romulans to level up. Knowing what I know now, I don't regret buying stuff like the Scourge Destroyer, or the B'rel, etc.

Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,691
# 8
04-06-2013, 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by centersolace View Post
Many metric yonks ago it was decided that outside of lockbox ships, factions would retain their respective ships, and all was good. You obviously don't intend on having Klinks in Mirandas, and Feds in BoPs, so why are we even opening that door? What makes Romulans the exception now?

Because they want to push players to play as Romulans, thus making people want to buy all the new toys they have. Them being able to use existing fed/kdf ships is mostly as a marketing bullet point to convince fed and kdf players that investing in a Romulan (as oppossed to just playing the story content once) is something painless and safe for them. As for brand new players.... they can buy both the new Rom ships and the old ships, its a win win for the new players and Cryptic.

I just think that Cryptic is painting themselves into a very unpleasant corner with this.

What they're doing is the opposite from painting themselves into a corner. Following Blizz's Panda formula means they get to have the most revenue with relatively little ongoing effort. I'd bet that after the planned Romulan push and a few extra bits and ends the most they'll get is an odd ship here and there, undoubtedly re-skins of other ships being released.

1. It makes the Federation and Klingons less unique. It really does. Most of the game takes place in space with your ship. They're the biggest part of the game, and one of it's largest draws. This is why you aren't letting Feds and Klinks fly each others ships, so I really question the reasoning behind it.

Making the Feds and the KDF less unique is the point! They WANT players to roll Romulans (or future non-independent factions) and be a potential sale of Romulan AND fed/kdf items.


2. It makes the Romulans less unique. I've already spent dozens of weekends and hundreds of hours with the other two kinds of ships. Doesn't seem like a good idea when the whole point of a new faction is a "new" experience.

Less unique? They're not even classic Romulans! They are about as generic as pointy eared fantasy/space adventurers get! I almost expect the story missions to start you off in a tavern talking to other space elves about how you need to overthrow the evil empress that's being corrupted.....


3. It's going to make Cryptic less money. They have an opportunity to force people to buy entirely new T5 ships, and people are going to be completely cool with that, and they aren't going to take it!?!??! Why?

The idea is to for them to sell old players new ships and for new players to have even MORE stuff to pick from when looking at the store and Dil exchanges. They are betting it'll be more profitable, how right they are remains to be seen.


4. There would be no excuse to not have T5 Constitutions, Mirandas, Oberths, or D-7s. When a Romulan Farmer can pilot the pride of a nation, there's really no excuse anymore.

Canon and thematic consistency were on a ship that sailed long ago, I'm pretty sure that it really is CBS telling them no on the T5 connie. Why would CBS do this? I'm not sure, but I think the new movies coming out may have something to do with it, specifically that Paramount doesn't want anyone else making money from the "connie" hype from their movie as well avoiding people getting confussed about a T5 connie and a JJ connie..... I know player's are not idiots but entertainment companies think so.


5. Now Feds and Klinks are going to want each others ships. And is that a can you really want to open? I wouldn't


They will simply say no and encourage everyone to start a romulan alt and redo a lot of the rep grinds as well as buy new shiny ships!



6. Besides, those new Romulan ships look super kickass. Why would you even want us to fly anything else?

Why indeed! So now everyone will want to buy them and all your other ships? You have them but they're not the new shinies... and if you're a new player you now have more options to spend cash on! Win-win for Cryptic.

Everything else looks so good. I don't want this to ruin it all. And it would.
I'm in total agreement that the way Cryptic is doing this feels wrong and misguided, Romulan freedom fighters? WTF Cryptic??!! Even us non Romulan fans are not pleased.

But I completely see how they arrived at doing it this way, they want to make more money.
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Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
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However, I think with regard to the Romulan Republic player characters/npcs, it all comes down to a finite point:

These are not the Romulans from the shows.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
# 9
04-06-2013, 12:30 AM
Since this is a new faction (some debate that) that you will have to start from scratch on, I think this was an attempt to keep the people who already bought zen ships from being completely screwed and not be able to fly those ships, some people have spent hundreds of dollars for. I really do feel it was an attempt to appease the player base and give them a break.

However now, proving that this dev team cannot please anybody no matter what they do, everyone is screaming bloody murder.

You can't tell me that all of you same people wouldn't have raged if you DIDN'T have access you the ships you already paid for, or demanded some kind of refund or zen bonus, since you won't be needing them anymore.

However I can see a problem coming from this system. It will effectively make both KDF and FED obsolete, especially in the cruiser department. KDF pop has always been low because they haven't had the same content and to be honest, most people couldn't be bothered to restart a new char once they hit 20 to make a KDF char now. Feds have more ships, KDF has better ships, but I am sure most people will debate that.

Romulans sound like they will have much better ships that fed, and maybe on par with KDF, without the issue of low pop.

So given the choice of being able to play KDF for the better ships, or Fed for the more iconic/more variety of ships, AND have access to your own, new and improved (still waiting to see stats) ships? It is the best of both worlds with virtually no downside to play as a Romulan, aside from having to start over, but after a few months, that won't be an issue.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
# 10
04-06-2013, 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunnlang View Post
While yes you can have a Romulan commanding a Galaxy class, it is still effectively in the service of the Federation.
If it's in the "service of the Federation" then the Romulans are just that -- a Federation door mat .
If it's not in the service of the Federation then the Federation are arms merchants -- no better then Quark's 'cusin Gaila' and his associates (see the DS9 ep "Business as Usual" for more details) .

Either way , once you level up as a Romulan and start doing "Starbase Defense" missions for your Masters , you'll find that sooner rather then later you will be killing A LOT of your 'other' allies .
Meaning that if you've allied with the Feds , you will be killing Klingons (to whom you're also allied per D'Tans double play) .

This is a situation where you have to swallow a lot to believe the 'story' that Cryptic is offering -- but that's the price to pay when you're playing Romulan Super Friends !

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
As for brand new players.... they can buy both the new Rom ships and the old ships, its a win win for the new players and Cryptic.
So this is once again about the Cryptic sacrificial slab in the name of "the new players" .
Before , I had my beloved STF's sacrificed (both the butchered story and the extended quest/game play) .
Now it's the very integrity of the two major powers (KDF/Federation) .

Quote:
Less unique? They're not even classic Romulans! They are about as generic as pointy eared fantasy/space adventurers get! I almost expect the story missions to start you off in a tavern talking to other space elves about how you need to overthrow the evil empress that's being corrupted.....
Oh you KNOW they will absolutely go there ... .
STO will be out of Beta in another 2-4 years ???
... you know after another 3 story arc remasters, crafting revamp, skills revamp, PVP upgrade ...
*note : the 2-4 year guesstimate came out of comparing Cryptic's Dev speed and that of a snail . Sadly the snail won .

Last edited by aelfwin1; 04-06-2013 at 01:16 AM.
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