Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 428
# 11
04-15-2013, 06:30 PM
There's really no reason to use Fighters over Frigates unless you're at T5 Romulan rep and want the elite Scorpions, aside from that the Frigates greatly outclass Fighters. The only advantage to using Fighters is they have shorter cooldown, or if you're KDF and want to run advanced Slavers for the occasional bit of EC/Contraband.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 50
# 12
04-16-2013, 03:55 AM
When i purchased tholian recluse carrier..I loved it.I gaved it to my tactical kdf and i didn't regret it even for a 1 sec.Now with tholian mesh weawers..just wow.It can blow cubes etc stuff in matter of seconds.CE is dead in matter of minutes aswell
(i would like full party of tholian recluse carriers lol)..*cough attack pattern beta IIx4 +myne III cough* pets itself have nice dps aswell..Well its simply amazing ship if u decide to go with tholian mesh weavers u won't have any regrets.Unless ofc they decide to nerf them.lol
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 149
# 13
04-16-2013, 04:15 AM
The tholian weavers are epic for AoE damage but less good (compared to elite scorpions) for destroying single targets. I just purchased my first elite weaver and not regretting it
Join date: 5 Feb 2010
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 928
# 14
04-16-2013, 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by talien View Post
There's really no reason to use Fighters over Frigates unless you're at T5 Romulan rep and want the elite Scorpions, aside from that the Frigates greatly outclass Fighters. The only advantage to using Fighters is they have shorter cooldown, or if you're KDF and want to run advanced Slavers for the occasional bit of EC/Contraband.
yeah i wish the JH dreadnought that i paid 800 lobi for had the ability to have frigates

but nope.. not unless i buy a 400m attack ship i dont want first..
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,489
# 15
04-16-2013, 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordhavelock View Post
would you say your review of fighters vs. frigates, the latter being better, carries over to the Vo'Quv and the Kar'fi? Is it always better to go Frigs over Fighters?
You can't make that ruling so trivially. Somebody brought up Elite Scorpions, which are hands down the best "bomber" type pet available. They do tremendous damage and will utterly annihilate any single target of your choosing if that target is relatively big and slow so that it can be pelted by the heavy plasma torpedo spam. Their torpedoes can redirect in flight, so even if a target is overkilled the torpedo probably won't go to waste, but with the slow torpedo speed and the fact that the torpedoes are proximity-fused, they tend to be.... "messy" when dealing with group combat.

The Bird of Prey pets from the Vo'quv are much tougher than a fighter, but they are also rather clumsy fliers and if left to their own devices will spend much time just buzzing in circles plinking with their turret. They still do way more damage than any fighter except for the Elite Scorpions, in big glorious chunks. With careful micromanagement Birds can be used to deliver precision strikes, doing tens of thousands of damage in one salvo.

The Mesh Weaver frigates do not have the same kind of single-target firepower that either the E.Scorps the Birds do, but they are also extremely agile little buggers that love to spam beams everywhere, leaving APB on enemies. They're the best of the bunch when it comes to group combat, because they can hit a lot of things at once.

Don't have experience with Kar'fi or its pets. Anybody who wants to buy me a Kar'fi to test on is welcome to do so.

Also not tried Advanced Stalkers; it looks like they are quite vicious with their shield-stripped Antiproton Sweep ability. I've love to get those guys under the microscope.

So yeah. Frigate versus fighter isn't really a clear issue. Different pets do different things. The problem with Widows is that they are just terrible. Mesh Weaver frigates are powerful pets, but they can be passed in single-target damage by the E.Scorps. Basically in that case it's "escort frigate" versus "bomber swarm".
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 16
04-16-2013, 07:11 AM
Yeah tell me about it with the Jem Dread, I really wanted the last set of frigates too. Don't get me started on how much I hate this decision by Cryptic.

Apart from the above I own all the frigates most in the adv form but only the normal mesh weavers I'm afraid.

The Mesh weavers are undeniably powerful and with higher versions of APB they will not only improve your DPS and theirs but also that of everyone in the instance. Imagine a 20 man fleet defence with over half a dozen of these flying around tagging everything with APB3 multiple times? They are good pets that will only get better the more people there are and the more those people are hitting targets tagged by APB.

The adv Fer'Jai frigates are amazing at slight AoE and single target damage due to their tricobalt mines, tricobalt torpedos and other goodies. Also they use aceton beam which weakens the enemy keeping you safer and they seem to spam it a lot. I have never failed to top the leaderboard in Crystalline Entity with these. They do a lot of kinetic damage though so they are best used on unshielded targets.

B'Rolth BoPs (these are the adv BoPs) if you manage them right are just insane. I've seen them overkill spheres in one pass easily on elite difficulty which even a good escort would have trouble topping. They do however need to be sent out as a wing of 4 attacking the same facing and pummeling the target with their CRF and then THY2 quantums (yes THY2 quantums x4 on bare hull) and if you can hit the target with APB then whatever it is will most likely die in one pass.

While I do think the elite Scorpians will atm do more damage, this is only because they are currently the easiest elite level pets to obtain. A fed fleet has reached T5 science and is selling elite pets now so it might be worth waiting for more people to test them or having a look at them yourself. I dare say House of Beautiful Orions will be hitting T5 science soon too and will no doubt be offering their stores to people in which case I would say Elite Mesh weavers, BoPs and Fer'Jai frigates will be some of the most powerful pets around, easily equal to a good escort or two.

Also worth noting someone mentioned BoPs tend to circle targets more using their turrets, that WAS true. The AI has since been improved (not great mind) and they now circle the target facing it somehow. This improves their damage but they're not getting the big hits they should be getting by recalling and sending out as a wing, then recalling etc.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,779
# 17
04-16-2013, 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordhavelock View Post
Really nice review Momaw, thank you. I know the OP is asking about the Tholian Carrier, but would you say your review of fighters vs. frigates, the latter being better, carries over to the Vo'Quv and the Kar'fi? Is it always better to go Frigs over Fighters?

My Vo'Quv recently got two hangar bays of Dilithium Store "Advanced" BoPs, and it feels like they're pretty strong. I think these are only "Blue", are there any better (Purple or Elite) BoPs for the Vo'Quv?

My other toon in a Kar'fi is running one each hanger bay of fighters (can't remember which) and the Fek'ihri frigates (whatever they're called)... Just basic Uncommon-level ones. I'm thinking of going all frigates, but still trying to decide. This toon isn't far from Romulan Rep T5 and Elite Scorpions, and I like the idea of using those (I've a Fed that uses/loves them in her Vesta).

I really like my carrier ships, and I keep trying to decide if I want to invest in a Tholian ship. Do you have your build posted somewhere, or could you post it here, please?
4 Antiproton beams. Omega beam omega torp.Khg set.
2 tac con.
1shield/rom plasma/omega/isometric charge
Turn/disrupter turret/plasmonic leech/aceton
Slaver/weaver
Tac= tac team
Uni= torpspread/faw/apo1/apo2
Sci=ph/he/sci team
Sci=tractor beam
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,792
# 18
04-17-2013, 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
You can't make that ruling so trivially... Frigate versus fighter isn't really a clear issue. Different pets do different things... Mesh Weaver frigates are powerful pets, but they can be passed in single-target damage by the E.Scorps. Basically in that case it's "escort frigate" versus "bomber swarm".
Again, I thank you for your detailed analysis!

I kind of think what I would do, then is run one BoP hangar, and one EScorp hangar. Sort of a "best of both worlds" setup... I'll give that a try, anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
...Also worth noting someone mentioned BoPs tend to circle targets more using their turrets, that WAS true. The AI has since been improved (not great mind) and they now circle the target facing it somehow. This improves their damage but they're not getting the big hits they should be getting by recalling and sending out as a wing, then recalling etc.
Thank you too, for your additional info. Specifically your info on how to control the BoPs. I often forget the Attack, Intercept, Recall, etc. buttons are even there. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalpen View Post
>build<
Awesome, thank you! I notice you go with two APOs. I was under the impression APB was better for group play because in helped everyone, including your pets. Thinking about it, I assume you're going with APO because your pets provide the APB, plus you get a self dmg buff, speed/turn buff (helpful in hulking carriers) and TB/root resistance, to boot. Is this a good assumption, or is there more to it?

You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Original Join Date: Feb 2010.
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Last edited by lordhavelock; 04-17-2013 at 03:11 PM.
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