Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 11
04-15-2013, 07:24 PM
My problem with photonic fleet is that it rarely seems to make any real difference to a fight. You don't want to use it unless you really have to because the cooldown is so long, but the pets aren't that capable. They lack heals or massive firepower which is what you need when there's a panic situation.

So... Let's change photonic fleet so that it's either a weak but sustained power so that emergencies are less prone to happen or, make it really powerful so that it's relevant to emergencies.

Either way, photonic fleet should never disappear until their timer is up. I cannot even begin to count how many times I've tried pulling this out and it does nothing. If it has a 5km max range for some reason, then disable the button when nothing is within 5km.

Last edited by momaw; 04-15-2013 at 07:26 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 411
# 12
04-15-2013, 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post
This particular trait has to enhance Photonic Fleet, to stay consistent with the Engineering trait enhancing Miracle Worker and the Tactical trait enhancing Go Down Fighting. It is definitely on my radar to make it more worthwhile, however.
I would vote for either

1) make Photonic Fleet actually good so that a sci captain cares about being able to use it more often
2) some sort of buff to the captain while PF is active (ie, something like +X to flow caps, grav generators, particle generators, subspace decomp, etc while PF is active)
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 798
# 13
04-15-2013, 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post
This particular trait has to enhance Photonic Fleet, .
This almost makes it sound like we might have some hope for traits enhancing other careerer abilities. Or maybe I am just inferring what I want to infer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jadz3 View Post
But Temo... we engineers NEED boosts. Although I DO agree some of the science skills need buffing... well most science vessels period need buffing too. But anything to help engies I'm for.
Your right Jolanar, Engineer abilities do lack 'Omph'. I didn't mean to say that engineers didn't need attention given to their trait, they did. I just didn't want science marginalized.

I'm not sure that any of the three classes do 'NEED' a boost though, the more we boost career abilities the more important they become, bringing us closer to the MMO trinity. Which I am personally against. I like any captain being able to do anything.

However, If the trinity is what people want then both engineers and science do need a boost to be as useful in their own roles as tactile captains are in theirs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
My problem with photonic fleet is that it rarely seems to make any real difference to a fight. You don't want to use it unless you really have to because the cooldown is so long, but the pets aren't that capable. They lack heals or massive firepower which is what you need when there's a panic situation.

So... Let's change photonic fleet so that it's either a weak but sustained power so that emergencies are less prone to happen or, make it really powerful so that it's relevant to emergencies.

Either way, photonic fleet should never disappear until their timer is up. I cannot even begin to count how many times I've tried pulling this out and it does nothing. If it has a 5km max range for some reason, then disable the button when nothing is within 5km.
This is exactly my and many other captains problem with the ability. Very well put indeed. Though now you have brought it up, the trait cryptic are proposing for us dose seem to come close to a solution to the problem, that being the cool down, maybe with this trait we will be able to sustain it and brake the 'save it' mentality we currently have.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 462
# 14
04-15-2013, 11:59 PM
What if it had a extra effect of what ever science ability used by you before activating photonic fleet causes them to unleash the same ability once ? but they could only unleash the base form before skill ups. But it would be used 3 times once you got photonic fleet 3 becuase of the extra photonic ships? This would mean if you scrambled their sensors your fleet would pick targets and scramble their sensors too etc.
Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 8
# 15
04-16-2013, 02:05 AM
Maybe it should give a chance to imitate Photonic Displacement or whatever it's called. Makes sense, after all.
- Dalo Lorn's school account.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 928
# 16
04-16-2013, 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post
This particular trait has to enhance Photonic Fleet, to stay consistent with the Engineering trait enhancing Miracle Worker and the Tactical trait enhancing Go Down Fighting. It is definitely on my radar to make it more worthwhile, however.
Please please enhance science skills they are in such need of enhancement right now and science ships need some serious improvements so they aren't all exactly the same except in power levels and whether they can use cannons or not.
I would like for the devs to open a poll/feedback thread on what exactly the players would like to see in the near future for the game.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,327
# 17
04-16-2013, 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
ya, a trait to buff the non damage portion of sci captains is needs. things like holds, drains, stuns and sensor interference. the damage is mostly irreverent for a sci, its the ability to control so others can damage beter that make a sci impotent.
The reason science control powers are so fluffy and harmless is because players complained and complained and complained about them. And Cryptic being Cryptic, listened. So no such thing as stun lock will exist in their games.

Control powers are purposefully soft.

Three years into the game's existence I seriously doubt there'll be any changes made to that philosophy.

For 2 brief months after launch Viral Matrix was a control power that demonstrated what control could do.

But alas, the devs stepped in and changed that. And science has been taking a beating ever since with nerf after nerf, tweak after tweak.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 18
04-16-2013, 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post
This particular trait has to enhance Photonic Fleet, to stay consistent with the Engineering trait enhancing Miracle Worker and the Tactical trait enhancing Go Down Fighting. It is definitely on my radar to make it more worthwhile, however.
Well the main issue is that what is now a pet spam ability on a 4 min cooldown that a typical premade PvP team will have about 3 copies of.


Will become a more frequent cast pet spam ability, unlocked from the cooldown.

On top of the sheer number of "free" weapon procs (particularly phaser) that pets generate, in general they just add to the current clutter that STO's UI/targetting does not handle well at all.


What looks like a fun power in PvE, just contributes to the pet spam issue that already negatively impacts PvP.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 190
# 19
04-16-2013, 10:14 AM
There's a problem inherent with Photonic Fleet being weak, and so this trait doesn't really help make it more useful in a holistic sense.

Some ideas I have for PF to make it worthwhile without the trait
  • Make ships stick around even if they are not currently in red alert
  • Similar to target sub systems, have 3 variants
    • PF - Attack - Escorts with CRF/CSV/HYT/TS
    • PF - Defense - Cruisers/Sci ships with heals - TSS, HE, ES, A2SIF
    • PF - Support - Sci ships with crowd control/debuffs - GW, TB, TR, TB, PS
  • Grant scis limited carrier commands
    • Attack - Only for your current active target.
    • Defend - Will only apply to you
    • None active, PF will attack nearest, self-heal
    • Carriers still get advanced command versions that allow for attacking other targets and guarding allies, along with intercept for stopping torpedoes, mines, etc.
  • Allow them to use special abilities - vanilla PF would use base BOFF cooldown rate, so would only get 1 shot of each before the timer expires.

Some ideas for a useful science skill space trait for PF
  • Change the spawn tables so that higher tier ships are more common
  • Grant additional ships (+1 at commander/captain, +2 at admiral)
  • Make the ships tougher - +Xx% damage or hull
  • Give the ships shorter cooldowns on their special abilities - instead of base BOFF cooldown, decrease it to fully-skilled cooldown. Would allow for at least two uses for special abilities before timer runs out.
  • Grant the ships higher effective skills - make their tractor beam/gravwell, weapons, heals etc do more. - perhaps based on the captain's skills.

I don't intend for all of these to be implemented, just a list of possible ideas.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 20
04-16-2013, 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
The reason science control powers are so fluffy and harmless is because players complained and complained and complained about them. And Cryptic being Cryptic, listened. So no such thing as stun lock will exist in their games.
You can still use powers like TB (target control), TBR (zone control), PSW (directly controls powers such as TBR, EWP, ES), VM (target control, good for controlling escorts over the course of a match), Scramble Sensors (can ruin coordinated attacks/alpha strikes or buys breathing room) to very good effect.


As is often the case with "support" powers, the powers themselves only end up being as good as the team you have and their ability to capitalize on them.

Some player tossing these around on a PUG team with 4 other players shooting different targets means nothing.

Coordinated premade team play designed around some of these tactics shows their strengths.



Other powers like Tyken's and Gravity Well pretty much have to be weaker due to their AoE nature and the ability of one team to spam multiple copies of them.


Now, I'm not saying some powers couldn't be tuned better to provide more of an effect but hard stunlocks for extended periods of time by clicking a single boff power is also far on the opposite end of the spectrum in that they are problematic and too crippling (read: death sentence or "I win" button).

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