Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,469
# 31
05-16-2013, 10:19 AM
Ahhh. Hmm. I don't use the Canon or Beam Tac abilities on my BOff I have Tac Team (duh) and APD for the resist buff/debuff. Admittedly, I love FAW on my cruiser - the lighshow is always fun ... except in the Briar Patch

I've been trying to come up with a "playbook". Assuming the energy type changes I'm thinking it will go down something like this:

Approach at 3/4 impulse, target directly fore
8-10K - Sensor Scan -> Tac Team -> Tachyon Beam + spacebar + RFML + GPG
4-8K - RSP -> Energy Siphon -> HE + spacebar
0-4K - EPtS -> CPB -> PH + spacebar
On the turn - GW + spacebar (hopefully finishing the target on the crush, maybe sucking nearby targets)
Then adapt based on cooldown timers.

This doesn't take into account multiple targets or device use like Weapons or Shields (although my second copy of EPtS is the "oh ****" button. Sci Team is on standby with Subnuc Beam and Dampening Field. THEN, being a Sci Captain I have access to Sci Fleet and Photonic Fleet but I'm not sure if these are used in STFs.

Thoughts?

Ok, then I think I am getting very close to the build I want and is needed within the limitations for the Mirror Luna hull.
Kathryn S. Beringer - The Dawn Patrol

Solaris build - Veritatum Liquido Cernene
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,469
# 32
05-21-2013, 11:58 AM
Two words: Warp Core. I need to get into that mess to figure out what would work.

Buuuut - this post is about the wider degree arc (135 degree with LoR) for several powers I use:
Subnuc Beam
Tachyon Beam
Gravity Well

Recall, I started this thread with BA in Fore and Aft but was counseled to replace BA with DBB since several Sci powers had the same Foreward arc. With Sci powers now having a greater arc, should the weapon arc change as well?

In other words ... Cannons?

Thoughts are welcome
Kathryn S. Beringer - The Dawn Patrol

Solaris build - Veritatum Liquido Cernene
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,465
# 33
05-24-2013, 10:24 AM
I'm very interested in this build as well I have my poor science kitty be neglected for a very long time since I never felt playing her was as fun as my cruiser. But now I want to revive her with a decent support build. I'm especially puzzled as to how to spend my skill points effectively.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 195
# 34
05-24-2013, 09:50 PM
If you find yourself pointing at the enemy during most of a tough battle, then cannons ought to be fine. You would need powers like TT to redistribute shields, else you'll be spinning around to take advantage of your awesome shields. I have a Tac Team but I still have to spin as I get a lot of aggro. I used to use all BAs, just one for now while I experiment with a torpedo build. I still spin while the torpedoes reload, and I need to spin to use the rear torps. Sci powers that fire front also have a longer cooldown so you can spin while the kettle boils. Firing arc is more important for BA/DBB as they fire all the time.

I haven't even begun to understand Warp Cores. I plan to leave it a few weeks until the exchange prices are low enough for experimenting.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,469
# 35
05-28-2013, 10:26 AM
Ok, the most current build.

I opted to get the Chroniton DBB for three reasons - 1) I had Lobi to burn, 2) It's AP beam type with extra effects, 3) I used enough resources to make the other weapons. I can't take advantage of the Set 2 ability from Temporal Warfare and I'm ok with that. I've convinced myself the entire Set is best on a temporal ship anyway

This was a case of poor shopping on my part I think. I probably could have bought better AP weapons from the Exchange if I waited more and did the seller's dance, but it turns out I had the Dilithium (yay Mining claims!) and stockpiled Traces to make what I needed (read: no real money spent). Once my Fleet gets into the later Tiers to get "teh Ubah b33mZ" then I'll go that route.

I decided against Cannons with a little more playing in missions. I think I can keep the boat within 90 degrees but it takes a little work. I'm getting better at speed manipulation If I want to relax a little more then Cannons do seem like a better prospect ... but I'm burned out resource-wise to make them ... for now.

Luna class - Mirror DSSV - USS Hiketeia

Fore Weapons
- Antiproton Dual Beam Bank (crafted)
- Chroniton Dual Beam Bank
- Rapid Fire Missile Launcher

Aft Weapons
- Antiproton turret (crafted) x3

Deflector/Impulse/Engines - Aegis

Engineering Consoles
- Tachyokinetic Converter
- Rule 62 Multipurpose Combat Console
- Graviton Pulse Generator

Science Consoles
- Field Generator
- Flow Capacitors
- Enhanced Plasma Manifold
- Particle Generator

Tactical Consoles
- Antiproton Mag Regulator x2

Lieutenant Tactical station
- Tactical Team I
- Attack Pattern: Delta I

Ensign Engineering station
- Em. Power to Shields I

Lieutenant Engineering station
- Em. Power to Shields I
- Reverse Shield Polarity I

Lt. Commander Science station
- Science Team I
- Charged Particle Burst I
- Energy Siphon II

Commander Science station
- Polarize Hull I
- Hazard Emitters II
- Tachyon Beam III
- Gravity Well III
Kathryn S. Beringer - The Dawn Patrol

Solaris build - Veritatum Liquido Cernene

Last edited by cmdrscarlet; 05-28-2013 at 10:32 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,283
# 36
06-27-2013, 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrscarlet View Post
Luna class - Mirror DSSV - USS Hiketeia

Fore Weapons
- Antiproton Dual Beam Bank (crafted)
- Chroniton Dual Beam Bank
- Rapid Fire Missile Launcher

Aft Weapons
- Antiproton turret (crafted) x3
I would use single cannons with your DBB as you can improve your DPS by using Cannon rapid fire which in turn will increase your threat generation to tank with.

Quote:
Deflector/Impulse/Engines - Aegis
Sounds good until you can get an STF set or Fleet gear

Quote:
Engineering Consoles
- Tachyokinetic Converter
- Rule 62 Multipurpose Combat Console
- Graviton Pulse Generator

Science Consoles
- Field Generator
- Flow Capacitors
- Enhanced Plasma Manifold
- Particle Generator

Tactical Consoles
- Antiproton Mag Regulator x2
Graviton Pulse Gen is useless in PvE as most things move in straight lines anyway so you might want to take an RCS to help keep cannons on target, also I would trade the flow capacitor for a graviton generator

Quote:
Lieutenant Tactical station
- Tactical Team I
- Attack Pattern: Delta I

Ensign Engineering station
- Em. Power to Shields I

Lieutenant Engineering station
- Em. Power to Shields I
- Reverse Shield Polarity I

Lt. Commander Science station
- Science Team I
- Charged Particle Burst I
- Energy Siphon II

Commander Science station
- Polarize Hull I
- Hazard Emitters II
- Tachyon Beam III
- Gravity Well III
I would trade Attack pattern Delta for Cannon rapid fire, PvE being DPS based for the most part, I would reconsider reverse shield polarity depending upon how much you personally have to tank stuff I would suggest Auxiliary to structural if you can spare the slot as it has a higher uptime and can be thrown to others. I would also trade Science team for Tractor beam as it adds to your damage total, has more PvE use and doesn't share a cooldown with Tactical team, I would swap charged particle burst for transfer shield strength as it is more useful for supporting allies and self healing.
Energy Siphon for the most part is useless on NPCs so I would drop it for another skill that adds damage or disables, Photonic shockwave for example, Tachyon Beam also suffers from NPC drain resistance in most cases and I would use perhaps Tykens rift which eliminates borg high yield torps as they are fired and coupled with high aux power and tractor beam does a fair bit of damage while you're at it.

For power I would balance Weapons and auxiliary keeping shields and engines at 25 base power
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 195
# 37
07-01-2013, 05:19 AM
I rather like this build. Some science abilities require a beam to deliver - a counter argument to cannons.

You have fantastic defenses. If you're not dying enough you might consider more particle generators to maximise your Gravity Well + Graviton Pulse combo. Because even death can be optimized.

Your current build does not require you to get close to the target. That is a defense against shorter-range things like Tractor Beams. Switching to cannons or using photonic shockwave or tractor beam could significantly change your pilot style.

If you're going for aggro then you can capture that best from ships not being attacked by escort team-mates. Trying to outgun escorts may be futile. Area attacks (like your Gravity Well) will annoy anyone not under attack. But BFAW, Torp Spread or Tricobalts would cost you a favorite Tac console or torpedo. It might be easier to try to get Science consoles with [+threat] somehow from a fleet. I assume you're already dashing headlong into every fray - in which case a feedback pulse might help you hold any first-responder aggro you get.
Career Officer
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 70
# 38
07-01-2013, 03:03 PM
I have to admit, I enjoyed reading this thread. It came up as I was looking for thoughts on a DBB + Turret kar'fi build for my GF ( She loves the fishie ship ) and I have to say. It's nice and refreshing to see someone else that takes their characters as seriously as we do.

I know your pain all too well, wanting to fly a Sci support how YOU want to and not how the GAME wants you to. I've spent the past two months putting together a Wells-class Torp / Sci build whilst trying to keep it as a temporal timeship, not just slapping on the top-dps things and calling it a day. It's alot more fun and challenging to min/max that way any idiot can stick DHC's a borg console and call it a day.

Likewise, stick to what you like flying and playing. It's always nice to get feedback but half of the fun is testing and playing. You feel like you've accomplished a lot more that way, instead of everyone else that just looks at STO academy and copies other builds.

Likewise, it is really disheartening that, as a sci support, you don't get the best drops or the most marks or even close because the game is DPS based. I, like you, enjoy playing with others, not against them in a race. I don't like the fact that ST:O is basically the opposite of everything that the Federation stands for in a game. Still, we have to make do..

.. Just wanted to offer some, insperational words on what you've done and accomplished here. I've been playing for nigh-on three years and can definitly tell you that "Proper" trekkie gamers are around, just have to find which rock they've hid under

<3 your work!
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,469
# 39
07-21-2013, 02:43 PM
Thank you for the kind feedback

After some tinkering, I have elected on the following build:

Luna - Mirror DSSV

Fore Weapons
- Antiproton Dual Beam Bank (crafted)
- Chroniton Dual Beam Bank
- Rapid Fire Missile Launcher

Aft Weapons
- Antiproton turret (crafted) x3

Deflector/Impulse/Engines - Aegis

Engineering Consoles
- Tachyokinetic Converter
- Rule 62 Multipurpose Combat Console
- Graviton Pulse Generator

Science Consoles
- Field Generator
- Flow Capacitors
- Enhanced Plasma Manifold
- Particle Generator

Tactical Consoles
- Antiproton Mag Regulator x2

Lieutenant Tactical station
- Tactical Team I
- Attack Pattern: Delta I

Ensign Engineering station
- Em. Power to Shields I

Lieutenant Engineering station
- Em. Power to Shields I
- Reverse Shield Polarity I

Lt. Commander Science station
- Tractor Beam I
- Transfer Shield Strength I
- Charged Particle Burst II

Commander Science station
- Polarize Hull I
- Hazard Emitters II
- Tyken?s Rift II
- Gravity Well III

Clearly I have taken some of adamkefei's advice. His console suggestions are still being investigated. This update was more about BOff powers as I think the "meat" of my playbook comes from them versus the ship itself. I'm keeping the Beams for now. I'm still reading a lot of DBB v Cannon posts and everyone else's opinion is split. I'm on the DBB side but I'm not inflexible. Also, I'm not in an STF for the DPS part of the game, so my build is not working for that goal. I just want to team more often and STFs seem to be the way to do it. Having said that, I'm also not *trying* to tank ... let cruisers do that

I've always been a fan of Tractor Beams since I started playing the game so that was easily accepted and I admit, that Science Team seems to be the standard skill to keep. But I have not been able to see their use to effective use (yet) so I swapped Sci Team out.

CPB gets a bonus to AUX and is a better choice to me over the hated Tractor Beam Repulsors and I've read some against Photonic Shockwave. Since my original intent is to shield strip, I'm keeping it until I'm inspired elsewhere.

Transfer Shield Strength will get its trial by fire soon. I decided to give it a try and it fits with my original intent.

I've tried Tachyon Beam and I'm not seeing it work as well as I thought or hoped or at all. So switching to Tyken's Rift is a no brainer.

I gotta get back into the game to try this layout and adapt my playbook. Thank you for looking!
Kathryn S. Beringer - The Dawn Patrol

Solaris build - Veritatum Liquido Cernene
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,438
# 40
07-21-2013, 03:46 PM
I see the thread is relatively old, but you're still chipping away at it.

Unfortunately, the big bugbear is that with how neutered higher-end science skills have become, you're honestly better off with a cruiser/engineering heavy ship if you want to play either defensive or offensive support. (Extend Shields, Aceton Beam, and Eject Warp Plasma are the big ones.) Tyken and Viral Matrix suffer soo much from mob natural resistances and immunities that it's hard to justify them; Gravity Well is easy for mobs to escape now with the Emergency Power to Engines change. That leaves you with.. Hazard Emitters, Transfer Shield Strength, and Tractor Beam 3 at Lt. Commander, and.. only Tractor Repulsors 3 at Commander.

I am mildly curious why you're opting for Attack Pattern Delta instead of Beta. I find Delta can be rather unreliable with more people(that the enemies can shoot at), whereas you can use Beta to help focus down an important target(especially once shields have been breached). It does stack with other people's patterns and benefits the entire team.

I might suggest swapping out one of the EPtS for Engineering Team 1 since you're only running a single Tac Team. This will give you greater Hull-healing flexibility(saving your HE for a shield neutralizer or using it alongside HE to patch someone/yourself up faster). You can alternate TSS like another EPtS just fine if you need to. I actually prefer running this setup now on most all of my ships because of the flexibility.

Beams are fine, although they do rob a lot of power that could be used elsewhere on a support ship. A dedicated Transphasic torpedo boat allows you to run high/max aux and shield and is fairly easy to set up(just run a couple missions). The trade-off is that Attack Pattern Beta won't apply(transphasic torp builds really don't require much in the way of tac skills, regardless). Otherwise, if you really like having beams, I'd suggest switching to a Tricobalt or Bio-Neural Warhead if you've got one(you'll be switching targets too often for the RFML or Photons). It's possible to do the Gravity Well-Heavy Plasma Torp combo(DoTs everything in the splash), but you'll lose your attack pattern and the combo really doesn't work as nicely since the EPtE change.


Anyways.. just some ramblings from my own personal experiences. Hope they help in some way.
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