Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,143
# 1061
05-15-2013, 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neok182 View Post
I'm sorry but this dosn't make any sense. how are you getting +10 to weapons, +15 to shields, +5 to engines and +4 to aux with the -40 power?

the Chel Grett has 40 more base power than the warbird yet has less power levels?

and even the 125/109/57/44? how? i must be really missing something because this math makes no sense to me.
EPS Manifold gives +10 power to all each time you use EPtX. Cycling EPtX/EPtY means full uptime on the additional +10 power. That's not available on Holo - it's a new Eng trait on Tribble.

5 pips of Singularity power with an Injection Singularity Core provides +15 Eng Power.

Efficient Captain on Holo provides +15 Efficiency. It's +30 on Tribble.

The Nukara console (not available on Holo) provides +5 Shield power.

Because of the lower levels (x/15 vs x/25), you're also receiving more from Efficiency (and the Efficiency is higher because the trait gives more - thus even more).

Here, let me breakdown the non-Eng one that I did.

This is the base (just the +10 Wep/+5 Eng Warbird bonuses):

110/100
30/30
20/15
15/15

Add Efficient Captain:

110/100
32/30
23/15
18/15

Add Warp Theorist:

110/100
33/30
23/15
18/15

Add 6 Warp Core Efficiency:

110/100
40/30
33/15
28/15

Add 6 Warp Core Potential:

114/100
44/30
37/15
32/15

Add 6 Engine Performance:

114/100
44/30
45/15
32/15

Add 6 Shield Performance:

114/100
52/30
45/15
32/15

Add 3 Aux Performance:

114/100
52/30
45/15
37/15

Add 3 Weapon Performance:

120/100
52/30
45/15
37/15

Add MACO Shield 5-stack:

125(130)/100
62/30
55/15
47/15

Add 5pip Singularity Shield Core:

125(130)/100
77/30
55/15
47/15

Add Borg Module:

125(135)/100
77/30
55/15
47/15

Add 0Point:

125(136)/100
79/30
57/15
49/15

Add EPtW1:

125(161)/100
79/30
57/15
49/15

Add EPtS1:

125(161)/100
104/30
57/15
49/15

Almost forgot the Nukara console:

125(161)/100
109/30
57/15
49/15
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 661
# 1062
05-15-2013, 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Can't answer average by any means. Can only tell you what my single 50 Sci in his Ha'nom would sport. He's the only guy I bothered leveling up to 50 after the wipe. I'll add in the Borg and 0Point to what he's got. He's got 6 Engine/Shield/Efficiency/Potential, 3 Aux/Wep, Efficient/Theorist, the Nukara Engines provide various boosts to Shield Power, and the Nukara console gives a bonus to shields.

(Lots of numbers bla bla bla)
For attack it looks decent, and not too shabby. It too doesnt deviate that much from fed and klink ships either, in terms of power allocation. Besides, the singularity powers i find more attractive and useful then the extra 40 power.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 1063
05-15-2013, 10:32 AM
Toss in another 25-26 to account for Leech + Engi EPtX trait, and you're sitting even prettier. Potential also exists for Adapted MACO / KHG 2 piece which would add in another what, about 10 aux or so?

Last edited by stirling191; 05-15-2013 at 10:34 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 661
# 1064
05-15-2013, 10:38 AM
Looking at the numbers posted from the total math buildup, I must say that squecky warbird is looking really mean... but thats on paper... yet to be seen in practice how it works.

Heck, my fleet retro Mogai is going to be terrifying with a tactical captain.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,143
# 1065
05-15-2013, 10:39 AM
Have to keep in mind that the Chel Grett in my example was on Holo, not on Tribble.

On Tribble, with say a Field Stabilizing Injection [W->S]...it would have:

125(161)/100
119/50
65/25
57/25

vs. the Warbird

125(161)/100
109/30
57/15
49/15

The Warbird loses...
10 Shield
8 Engine
8 Auxiliary

It's -28 power compared to the non-Warbird.

edit: Keep in mind that's 5 pip'd. It would be -20 shield when you use a Singularity Ability, dropping you to -38 power compared to the non-Warbird.

edit: But you have to keep in mind how shield damage reduction works - you're not actually losing the the resistance from the loss of 20 shield power unless you've got no other resistances running.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba

Last edited by virusdancer; 05-15-2013 at 10:45 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 1066
05-15-2013, 10:52 AM
To put that power change into perspective, it's a 2.8% or 5.6% shield resist difference. With appropriate buff selection (perhaps going for an EPtSII instead of a I for example), that difference can very easily be completely overcome.

On paper at least, the power difference isn't the apocalyptic issue that alot of folks are making it out to be.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 661
# 1067
05-15-2013, 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Have to keep in mind that the Chel Grett in my example was on Holo, not on Tribble.

On Tribble, with say a Field Stabilizing Injection [W->S]...it would have:

125(161)/100
119/50
65/25
57/25

vs. the Warbird

125(161)/100
109/30
57/15
49/15

The Warbird loses...
10 Shield
8 Engine
8 Auxiliary

It's -28 power compared to the non-Warbird.
And that is pretty much it. The higher the value of the power settings is at base, the less you gain from it when you start adding in bonuses and flat rate extras (Due to how Cryptics maths are based on diminshing returns). So starting out low isnt so bad, because proportionate when consoles and skills are added in, the closer both ships will come to an equal setting at high values/end game. So warbirds have more to gain from it in the long run then fed/klink ships.

So in essence im not suprised to see that the power isnt that much off in comparison. Besides, im not going to cry over ~30 less power to distribute when i have singularity powers and can battle cloak.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 661
# 1068
05-15-2013, 10:55 AM
And on that topic:

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,143
# 1069
05-15-2013, 10:58 AM
Don't forget the power bonuses from some of the 2pc sets as well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
Here are the current set bonus values.

Enhanced Projectile Efficiency Set (T'varo)
+10% Projectiles Damage
25% Cooldown Reduction for Projectiles

Enhanced Defensive Systems Set (Dhelan)
Increases Defense by up to 10 based on flight speed
+5 to Shield Power

Enhanced Weapon Systems Efficiency (Mogai)
25% Resistance to Weapon Power Drain (including from weapon fire)
+5 Weapon Power

Enhanced Maneuvering Systems (D'deridex)
+2 Turn Rate
+10 Engine Power

Note that these are all potentially subject to change at any time, etc. etc.
Yes, although I'm really looking at making a Torp'varo...the potential for the BOgai is pretty nifty too, eh?
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 661
# 1070
05-15-2013, 10:59 AM
*Adding Torp`Varo and BOgai to the STO vocabulary*
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
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