Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 493
# 151
04-19-2013, 04:46 PM
The singularity core status block can be moved around like any other HUD element.

Regarding it though: It doesn't actually look that great with the new interface.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,925
# 152
04-19-2013, 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
tl;dr

1.) I cannot or will not adapt to find new tactics or strategies to punish enemies who act so predictably that I know exactly what they will do in response to MY actions which I control.

2.) I cannot or will not consider that there might be any way that the devs could come up with a technique I haven't yet seen to mitigate the turn rate issues of the D'Deridex even though I know it will come with powers I haven't yet seen.

3.) I cannot or will not stop yelling "NO NO NO" about the current changes, demanding that the game continue to play exactly the way it has been playing despite the fact that there's problems with that too.

In short dontdrunkimshoot, I'm getting tired of you repeating the same things that are barely on topic for the forum in question. You're nagging about a ship you haven't played, you're nagging about a rules change that is not relevant to this topic, and you're nagging that PvP will go differently and you can't be bothered to adapt. Please say something new. Please don't say something until you have something new to say.

Sorry devs, I know you're probably going to have to smack this post down, but it has to be said.

I don't know what's been cooked up for the D'Deridex, I'm quite unfond of big heavy ships, but I'll reserve judgement until I have the chance to try it.

(At least, unlike the Galaxy-R, I'm getting the ship for free).
i covered every angle, theres is no adapting strategy that i missed, or exists. you are locked into a course of action because of system cooldowns, thats whats predictable, not the player.

i know how to exploit the openings the EPt changes create, its child's play. i know how these changes have a ripple effect into everything, is blatantly obvious to those of us pvping for 3 years. ive played with them on tribble plenty as well. there, passed your HURRDURR test it first inane requirement.

your telling me i haven't played the ship? a stat clone of a ship i have played a whole bunch? instead of saucer sep, its got battle cloak, ive used battle cloak a lot, i know its ins and outs. if its cloaking to escape and is already damaged, battle cloaking under fire is suicide, it drops shields. a big fat heavy ship is not going to outrun attackers ether, something that large will also be easy to bump into wile claoked, and be close enough to shoot.

instead of 200 base energy its got 160 base energy and a few gimmick singularity abilities with long cooldowns that needs to be charged. these fix none of the fundamental turn rate problems, or change the station setup which is so bad its a non starter. i know that, because i have build craft down to a science, and one again HURRDURR ive tested it or used it in practice FOR YEARS.

your not getting the D'deridex-R for free btw
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,148
# 153
04-19-2013, 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
No, we felt that this would make Romulan players feel too "forced" toward using Plasma weaponry. They already have a lot of incentives to use Plasma.

Currently, it scales with Particle Generators skill and items that improve Exotic Damage.
Plasma is one of the more...complicated (I've heard some say convoluted)...things to deal with in the game when it comes to buffing the damage of it.

Personally, I have no experience with the Romulan Threat-Scaling Science Consoles and their [Pla] modifier, but I have heard from several people that they work like the Plasma Infusers Tac Console.

There were a few funky things that have been resolved (which is good); but that being said, this is what I have found to be the case with Plasma otherwise...

Plasma Infuser:
Directed Energy
Directed Energy DoT
Projectile DoT
Eject Warp Plasma

Ambiplasma:
Projectile DoT
(Projectile Kinetic)

Particle Generators:
Eject Warp Plasma

2pc Romulan Harness:
Directed Energy
Directed Energy DoT

So now we have the Plasma Shockwave, does Plasma damage - and is buffed by Particle Generators (as well as Exotic boosting - so uh, the Sci trait?).

As I mentioned, Plasma is a wee bit complicated, eh? Is there any chance of this ever being simplified somewhere down the road?

Consider somebody with the following build:

Weapons: Plasma Energy, Plasma Torps, Plasma Mines
BOFF Ability: Eject Warp Plasma
Warbird Ability: Plasma Shockwave

Plasma Infuser: Buffs DEW, DEW DoT, Proj DoT, EWP
Ambiplasma: Bufs Proj Kinetic, Proj DoT
Particle Gen: Buffs EWP, Plasma Shockwave
2pc Harness: Buffs DEW, DEW DoT
Rom Sci [Pla]: ?Infuser?Harness?One day I'll grab one and see.

One could see where somebody* could go with a Plasma build - Infusers, Rom PrtG [Pla], Harness, etc, etc, etc. Could have fun there**, eh?

Why does the Ambiplasma console exist? For a Plasma Projectile build? You'll lose out on the damage bonus from the Harness and potentially the Rom Sci. PrtG doesn't do anything for DEW nor Proj, so that's not a consideration.

*Course, that would be a Tac or Sci. Cause, even though you need the Eng BOFF for the EWP, the Eng can't buff it like the Tac. Then you've got the Plasma Shockwave which the Tac and Sci can buff.

**Of course, that fun is easily ruined by how quickly HE can be spammed to nullify the DoT aspect of Plasma (an aspect that has been worked into the overall damage of the weapons/abilities - thus, leaving them weaker than other weapons/abilities). Heck, the Borg proc - etc, etc, etc.

It's just a curious situation there...the Plasma thing. Can definitely see not wanting to give the appearance to players of forcing them into a subpar selection. Mind you, two of my guys are primarily Plasma - c'mon, it's fun to cook people with full shields, am I right? There's no doubt that if there wasn't HE or the Borg proc, etc, etc, etc - it would be massively OP. The sheer number of PDoTs I can load up on folks would be a slaughter. There has to be some sort of middle-ground though - not this on/off thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaturnley View Post
Just a suggestion then - don't call it "Plasma Shockwave" if plasma doesn't affect it, or you will have this question being answered 1000x a week

Call it Particle Shockwave, or something else instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neok182 View Post
Thats a really good idea, since it can't be boosted that will be confusing to a lot of players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reximuz View Post
I'll second this. If the console for plasma doesn't make it better, don't call it plasma!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsurutafan01 View Post
"Singularity Shockwave".

Leaves no doubt about it's origin, and removes the potential confusion. Also: sounds cool.
It's not the first Plasma doohickey not buffed by Plasma doohickeys... would be nifty if the overall Plasma situation were reviewed. Naming it something else, though...wouldn't address the problem - rather, it would just complicate things further. The underlying issue would remain.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 105
# 154
04-19-2013, 05:08 PM
I've only run played with the first ship for a few missions, and I was a little underwhelmed with the singularity mechanic. It never seemed to do much when I fired it off even at level 5. Something that requires charging through combat is always problematic, as by the time you get to use it either the enemy is dead or you are. I could see it;s use in a cruiser or something to detonate one enemy after they have scratched at my hull for a while or something. But right now not impressed. Maybe have it fully charged when you go to red alert in order to give a full alpha strike as you decloak. Or maybe have it charge up while cloaked.

Oh and read the Drunks post on turn rates as I agree with every word. Cruisers are pretty naff even in PVE now. I fly an Orion marauder on one of ly character and I got First place in CE tonight, but that has fighters and it has a sci instead of a eng engineering slot. AND its got a turn rate of 7! Even that slight change was enough to make my beam cruiser that little bit more flyable and enjoyable to fight in. The game has turned into maneuverable escorts, you might as well give the cruisers a chance to turn.

And, you know what makes the NPC D'deridex so nasty in missions? It uses sci powers! I mean look at the abilities it has (according to STOwiki)

Tractor Beam
Viral Matrix
Photonic Shock Wave
Torpedo: High Yield III
Torpedo: Spread II
Beam Array: Overload III

This ship is NOT an eng failboat. I'm really hoping the stats are just placeholders.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 330
# 155
04-19-2013, 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
tl;dr

1.) I cannot or will not adapt to find new tactics or strategies to punish enemies who act so predictably that I know exactly what they will do in response to MY actions which I control.

Except that when something is actually hamstringed it's not about finding new tactics and strategies. Bad turn rates and redundant slots (three ensign engineering slots, where there are only two cooldowns) is just flat out inferior.

Sure, you can find a way to function with a broken leg, but you still have a broken leg. In a butt kicking contest you're coming in last unless you're going up against someone else with a broken leg or two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
2.) I cannot or will not consider that there might be any way that the devs could come up with a technique I haven't yet seen to mitigate the turn rate issues of the D'Deridex even though I know it will come with powers I haven't yet seen.
Limited/timed powers/advantages used to offset a permanent, crippling disadvantage doesn't work. Unless they give a power that essentially has 100% up-time which increases turn rate then anything they do won't be enough, and if they're going to do that then they aren't very bright because they could have just increased the turn rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
3.) I cannot or will not stop yelling "NO NO NO" about the current changes, demanding that the game continue to play exactly the way it has been playing despite the fact that there's problems with that too.
And he shouldn't stop yelling it. It's fundamentally a bad ship design. It's an existing design that everyone complains about, and hey... it's not getting fixed. Now that they're trying to introduce it again maybe now it's time to fix things. No? Or should everyone just accept what doesn't work and either (a) fly a different ship, because some options aren't actually viable options or (b) fly sub-par garbage to be different, because every PvP and STF team loves to have to shoulder other peoples' burdens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
In short dontdrunkimshoot, I'm getting tired of you repeating the same things that are barely on topic for the forum in question.
It's on-topic. And it's important. If you're tried of reading it, stop reading it. Simple solution, no?
________________
You'll have to forgive the Zeroes and Lowercase... Perfect World stole my Oh's and Capitals.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,148
# 156
04-19-2013, 05:24 PM
Oh, by the way - just wanted to say the Brown skin option, which gives the ships an aged bronze look/copper look - is pretty damn awesome as far as the visuals go. Just wanted to add that.

It's kind of funny looking at this Mogai...it has that mint chocolate/chocolate mint thing going for it. Kind of cool.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,925
# 157
04-19-2013, 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by revalah View Post
This ship is NOT an eng failboat. I'm really hoping the stats are just placeholders.
indeed. the D'deridex should be a high risk, high reward, huge but somewhat brittle alpha striking death dealer, like it was consistently in canon. when used as a ship of the line it got massacred over and over in the dominion war, its not a typical cruiser tank, its a warbird.

personally, i think it should have a whole new stat combination. like how destroyers are tac heavy station setups with cruiser stats, warbirds should be sci heavy, tac secondary ships with cruiser stats. something like this

tier 5 D'deridex R

9 turn
3 eng consoles
3 sci consoles
3 tac consoles

COM sci
LTC tac
LT eng
LT eng

ENS uni
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 310
# 158
04-19-2013, 06:14 PM
Want to add that -40 power penalty is just waaaaay too high for a gimicky power that takes forever to charge/recharge.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,390
# 159
04-19-2013, 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaturnley View Post
I will tell you what, I DO respect your knowledge and experience in this game - we've chatted in TTS before, and I know you know your stuff.
Thanks!



Quote:
Originally Posted by jaturnley View Post
When you have ACTUALLY FLOWN the D'D and made that conclusion, I will be right there listening.
I plan to, but the reality is after constant PvP there is nothing that ship can do, excluding the singularity mechanics which I plan to test, that leads me to think this ship will ever be useful in PvP.

There are somethings working against it to start, Cruisers for one are already generally a bad choice for Premades and only average at best in PUG/PUGmade matches (They can still make solid healers).

Second it has that BOFF layout.

It was a bad BOFF layout before, with the new EPTx Cooldowns, it's actually even worse now.


On top of that, beams and pressure DPS are basically dead in PvP right now against any mediocre player. Dead. This is not hyperbole.


Unlike in PvE where enemies don't move much, and a Turn rate of 5.5 is just frustrating, in PvP its a critcal stat that is extremely important.





But until then, they need to stick to their guns and not make changes based on ships that you have flown that are NOT the D'D. Fair enough? Cut the devs some slack, they DO do this for a living.[/quote]

To my knowledge, none of the Devs PvP for a living.

If any of them do, they should step forward and be hailed and adored as the new STO PvP Czar.




I'm kidding, I know what you meant.

The truth is that designing powers/ships and actually knowing how those things work in this game's PvP environment really are two different things.

This might get me some flak, but even a good portion of frequent PvPers don't even have a clear angle on PvP combat, much less a development team that has regularly admitted to not pvping much, if at all.


We'd love to have them join us, we love when JHeinig stops by in OPvP and /targets hale, we love when Bort takes pity on us and fixes the current gorgon (power/item) that has been released from hades (Speaking of which, Bort Tet Warp Plasma on Danubes with Chrons and TB3 ? Save us Bort-i-wan, you're our only hope!).

If they could only take that one extra step and PvP with us....



Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
I appreciate that, and a lot of the other designers are paying attention to the feedback here, too. They're just not quite as talkative as I am. =)
And your interaction is appreciated, sorry if you have to bear the brunt of 3years of pent up nerd rage against the Galaxy-R's turn rate and boff layout. Seriously though, there have been literally hundreds of posts on this.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 424
# 160
04-19-2013, 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superherofan View Post
Want to add that -40 power penalty is just waaaaay too high for a gimicky power that takes forever to charge/recharge.
While I agree currently, I feel it important to point out it's not quite -40 power. It's -10 to each power setting. You'll get more benefit out of efficiency abilities because of that. You won't make up the loss the in power completely [or even mostly] but it is slightly different than a flat -40.

[ edit / add ]
Bleh thinking about it, it's not even really better described that way either, -40 power is more than fair, because we still assign power to each system from a total bank. So bleh. In any event efficiency still does perform better for romulan ships because of the lower power levels.

Last edited by sudoku7; 04-19-2013 at 06:39 PM.
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