Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,391
# 241
04-20-2013, 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Actually not. I do not see the point why escorts should reach so high turn rates using RCS consoles.
I'm sorry but you should probably try playing an escort in a premade.

Escorts pretty much live and die by their turn rate, and unlike the "me me me" mentality of PUGs, Premade TEAMS rely on their Escorts to score kills while Escorts rely on their Cruisers/Sci ships for healing and support.

It's always about what the team as a force can accomplish together with all of the "parts" (ships) working in unison towards a goal.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 242
04-20-2013, 10:08 PM
I never said they do not. I said, it is questionable if they should reach so high turn rate numbers. And if the dmg bonus for 45 degree arc weapons reflects this. it was adjusted once already with the cooldown changes made by Snix. I'm not the judge on this, I'm just saying it's not right when one console has 4x more the benefit for one ship class than enother.

Oh and please stop with that premade preaching. It's true you are making decent acolyte for Jorf's premade religion, and while amusing to read it few times, it gets rather repeatitve after a while.

Obviously we can agree that we disagree about this subject, and I would let it at this.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,317
# 243
04-20-2013, 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Actually not. I do not see the point why escorts should reach so high turn rates using RCS consoles. I'm not sure the original intention was that they can stay 100% on their target with 45 degree weapons (it makes the whole dmg bonus for narrow arc weapons pointless). RCS with flat bonus are completely fine. Consoles should be equally strong for all ships. But I understand it's a hot topic and there probably never will be a consensus
We don't need a consensus. They're wrong and we're right.

If they want to fly fighters, then let them fly fighters. Inertial Dampeners wouldn't prevent the crew from becoming meat pancakes with the turn they're currently capable of...meh.

They found that % bonuses did not work with the Subterfuge Trait for BOFFs...odds are they're finally realizing that it doesn't work for Turn either.

Almost every balancing "disadvantage" given for all of the "advantages" is no longer a balancing "disadvantage"...tada, the state of things.

They've got the basis for some decent ships here, an opportunity to set things right for a new tomorrow and the future of STO.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,059
# 244
04-20-2013, 10:24 PM
On the singularity mechanic.

Its terrible.

60s recharge after the use of one of these skills... is beyond painful.

As I see it you have 2 choices in the higher range of ships.

1) never use any of the singularity powers... cause loosing the power bonus for 60s is dumb and completely not worth it.

2) if you do choose to use a skill... its going to be the heal and nothing else ever... cause again going 60s with no power is dumb.

For a cost of 40 power this is a terrible mechanic.

My suggestion would be this.

1) Keep the -40 power... However
2) make it worth the trade...

I would do it this way myself.

Remove the singularity power lockout... if you burn it you start to rebuild it right away. This will remove the thinking of I can't burn my 5 levels cause I am going to loose to much power.

I would then add cool downs to the individual skills.... 60s each.
This will mean in the later ships with muliple skills they will in fact come into play... with out being spammed. It will also be much much easier to tune each skill for balance.... if one seems to powerful to be on a 60s... increase the cool down on it.

Frankly this mechanic is so terrible that if it stays as it is right now... if we had the option to slot a regular core I would.
/channel_join Tyler Durden
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,965
# 245
04-20-2013, 10:28 PM
the turning console change sounds great, but the D'deridex, and ALL otehr cruiser like ships still need the turning floor raised, you still have to give up several console slots to get the ship to turn as well as a negvar would with none, for example.

i went into detail what a proper fix for base turn rates would be, you REALLY should care that out as well.

looking forward to seeing what the adjusted staion setup is, something like the ody or ambassador has might make sense. you know, since it turns like a carrier, maybe it should have a carrier like 2 LTC stations. it doesn't even have hangers yet moves like a carrier, that sounds more then fair
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,317
# 246
04-20-2013, 10:32 PM
Hrmm, I've found the three abilities available so far to have their uses depending on the situation. I've used all three in different scenarios - and - I've even forgone using them when they were not called for at the time.

If there's a bunch of small ships - them bam - damage!
If I'm getting hammered, but not too hammered - then bam - heal!
If I think I'm going to get too hammered - then bam - shadows!
If none of that - then bam - power!

It's oddly more in line with how I would have thought so many more of the other powers would work - it's definitely got a more Star Trek feel to it...rather than the FPS/TPS shooter feel that so much of the game does.

I have to think, I have to weight my options, I have to deal with that opportunity cost of my choice...it's not just a case of having my cake and eating it (while having pie at the same time which is what STO generally gives us).
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,059
# 247
04-20-2013, 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
the turning console change sounds great, but the D'deridex, and ALL otehr cruiser like ships still need the turning floor raised, you still have to give up several console slots to get the ship to turn as well as a negvar would with none, for example.

i went into detail what a proper fix for base turn rates would be, you REALLY should care that out as well.

looking forward to seeing what the adjusted staion setup is, something like the ody or ambassador has might make sense. you know, since it turns like a carrier, maybe it should have a carrier like 2 LTC stations. it doesn't even have hangers yet moves like a carrier, that sounds more then fair
There is 2 simple fixes for turn rate issues in this game.
1) change the RCS to be a flat base turn rate Bump... White mk xii being 3.0... purple being something like 3.8. (or some number they can make logical for lower - higher level gear)
2) bump all cruisers 3 points on base (including the battle cruisers) bump all sci 1-2 points... and bump all escorts/warbirds/bops 1 point minus the bug... which can stay as it is.
/channel_join Tyler Durden
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,059
# 248
04-20-2013, 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Hrmm, I've found the three abilities available so far to have their uses depending on the situation. I've used all three in different scenarios - and - I've even forgone using them when they were not called for at the time.

If there's a bunch of small ships - them bam - damage!
If I'm getting hammered, but not too hammered - then bam - heal!
If I think I'm going to get too hammered - then bam - shadows!
If none of that - then bam - power!

It's oddly more in line with how I would have thought so many more of the other powers would work - it's definitely got a more Star Trek feel to it...rather than the FPS/TPS shooter feel that so much of the game does.

I have to think, I have to weight my options, I have to deal with that opportunity cost of my choice...it's not just a case of having my cake and eating it (while having pie at the same time which is what STO generally gives us).
Perhaps your right there... I am normaly a fan of having options.

As far as pvp goes anyway though... I would have to say using anything other then the heal seems very unwise.

Perhaps a better solution would be something like
30s Cool down on Singularity build.
with a
60s cool down on each skill... so they can't be chained...

Still seems to me that with the higher end cores being locked out of having any charge at all for 60s... seems hardly worth using any of the skills.
/channel_join Tyler Durden
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 249
04-20-2013, 10:42 PM
Maybe they should add new skill for romulan captains, that improves the cooldown of singularity power. But Then again I could imagine something more special for all factions in skill trees.

Something like Starfleet Training, Klingon academy training, Romulan training, that would give unique bonuses for faction related skills.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,059
# 250
04-20-2013, 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Maybe they should add new skill for romulan captains, that improves the cooldown of singularity power. But Then again I could imagine something more special for all factions in skill trees.

Something like Starfleet Training, Klingon academy training, Romulan training, that would give unique bonuses for faction related skills.
Something like that can make sense.

I admit I havn't gotten all that far on tirbble at this point... I am level 12 or so now with the second warbird... but watching my shield power go from 23 to 15 for 60s... seems just plain bad. It makes no difference at this level. However later in the game if unless these skills are super OP I can't understand why I would want to gimp my ship for 60s at a time. That is the issue I see... cool powers that no one ever uses is sort of silly. Or get slaughtered 10s after the power runs out. With perhaps the exception of the shield heal skill.
/channel_join Tyler Durden
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