Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,036
# 51
04-19-2013, 04:58 AM
Cryptic, I am not complaining about the turn rate because of balance.

Low turn rate ships are simply not fun to fly

Nothing more, nothing less. This may be an opinion, or a perspective, but I dare you to examine your 'metrics' and then tell me how many players fly ships with pathetically low turn rates (aside from carriers because there is no choice/option there).
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,675
# 52
04-19-2013, 04:59 AM
I find these new black hole cores fun!

However, can we please get a tutorial explanation to how to use it, and to be notified of stuff like lower base power levels ?
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 53
04-19-2013, 06:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
The lower power levels for Warbirds are intentional. Warbirds currently start with a base of 40 power to all subsystems
For the Tliss, I felt like the periodic shockwave wasn't worth it. Hard to say because the space battles were pretty easy, but in PvP it would be an eternity between uses. Granted, more testing is required.

Related question - I didn't see any info what the power levels meant for the singularity power. Maybe my initial Tac Boff should give an explanation.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 626
# 54
04-19-2013, 06:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienfrombeyond View Post
I suppose their excuse is you can just use a dedicated science vessel of your ally, but then you miss out on the unique aspect of Romulan gameplay.
Sure, you can use your ally's ships, and I was going to use this as an excuse to grab a Varanus once and for al along with finally checking out other Klingon stuff, but really, allied ships should be there more as a way to add variety without burning a ton more dev time. What we have here is an obvious gap, and that goes beyond lack of variety. Romulans also lack a carrier.

The reason it is important is that these singularity cores add new gameplay, and by lacking such broad ship roles, you lock out a large chunk of potential playstyles.


On a smi-unrelated note. Given their background and disposition, I honestly had Romulans pegged for having science heavy ships in much the same way Klingon ships are Tac heavy (and by extension, I figured when Cardassians ever get added, they'd be engineering heavy leaving Fed as the middle ground. This was ages before they gave Gorn ships to KDF and Feds everything under the sun, though)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post

everyone would be happy, people would buy more cruisers, new players drawn to LOF wile leveling their romulans would not stop playing as soon as then went from the 14 turn mogia to the 5 turn D'deridex. you know, stuff like that, that makes business sense. players will hate, HAAAAATE going from the mogai to the D'deridex, all the new customers your trying to attract especially. its time, finally, to fix how horrible and unfun all the iconic ships in the game are, the cruisers.
Frankly, with the sorry state of science abilites, it's just a bad time to be in anything not an escort. it's been like that for a while, the only difference between seasons is if its cruisers or science vessels that are more ****, and it seems to be cruiser's turn for a bit.
====
As for the turn going from Mogai to D'Deridex, that's another thing about the ship progression. For all the other ship lines, there is a steady progression to slightly bigger but slower ships until you get to the top tier, but warbirds not only jump around in boff and console layout, they also jump around in stats.

They need to give us 2 lineups: A cruiser science vessel warbird line, has a fair mix of engineering and science slots and the cruiser style weapon layout, and has a bit higher hitpoints but a bit lower turn rate. The D'Deredix would fit into this line at the slow end (but still having a better turn than it does now) and the Dhelan would be on the faster side. A second Atttack linup, essentially your bog stndard escorts, dual cannons and fast turn rates (though, possibly have them turn a bit slower than Fed or KDF escorts and be more in the supper science vessel range), but should have paper for a hull. The Mogai fits in here at the slower, but still survivable side of the scale while the T'Liss would be at the faster, more fragile end. Also, with two lineups, they should meet in the middle with turn rates., so while the D'Deridex would have a cruiser turn rate (but still be faster than a fat, pregnant cow with a gimp leg) and the T'Liss would turn like an escort, the Dhelan and Mogai might turn more like science vessels.

This means the cruiser lineup would need a new ship at tier 3 while the attack ships would need ships at tier 2 and 4. The simple way to do this would be to slot in those P2P ships in there as lower tier ships and then just have the tier 5 store ships be retrofits. BOOM, no extra dev time needed for the art team and we now have twice the ships to fly leveling up. Obviously once you hit Tier 5, all bets are off since tier 5 ships are always all over the place, but it would still be nice to have some semblance of an organizational structure still at that tier.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,180
# 55
04-19-2013, 06:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Cryptic, I am not complaining about the turn rate because of balance.

Low turn rate ships are simply not fun to fly

Nothing more, nothing less. This may be an opinion, or a perspective, but I dare you to examine your 'metrics' and then tell me how many players fly ships with pathetically low turn rates (aside from carriers because there is no choice/option there).
I will politely disagree. You may not personally enjoy them, but that does not mean that no one enjoys them.

In fact, I quite enjoy flying my Bortas with the autocannon and a subspace jumper. It's a playstyle that takes a lot of getting used to, but there is something quite enjoyable about flying something that 'feels' like a proper capital ship. It's looking like all romulans will be getting a subspace jump like ability through their singularity core, so that is going to do a lot to counter any mobility issues.

I'm actually pleased to see the current ship specs. The Romulan ships were never super agile - they relied on sneaking up on targets before the fighting started.

I do sincerely think the D'Deridex should have the option to fit dual cannons though. It was a ship designed to face its enemies, not give broadsides(perhaps it already does, but it's not listed in the shipyard).

Last edited by szerontzur; 04-19-2013 at 06:10 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 90
# 56
04-19-2013, 06:15 AM
This is technically related to ships, even though it's not a mechanical standpoint, so....

Give props to the folks responsible for the ship interior of the starting Warbird; it feels right. Although when I entered the engineering section, I was beginning to wonder if I'd gotten on board the Event Horizon. "Where we're going, we won't need eyes to see..."
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 57
04-19-2013, 06:25 AM
Bearing in mind that it's early days for my Romulan captain career...

I feel like the singularity core thing really doesn't help me a lot in battle. This is for a couple different reasons. The first being that the core has to charge up before it can be used, which means anything it might be used for cannot be used as an opening move in battle. The second reason being that the plasma burst I have access to doesn't do enough damage to justify its extensive cooldown. It's not a 1 minute cooldown...That's how long you have to wait before the core can start charging again, which means another minute before you can use the ability again. The fact that the core is fully discharged after every use means that the higher level ships with multiple abilities are all basically going to pick one, use it half way through a fight, and then forget about the singularity mechanic because by the time it's ready again the fight will be over.

None of that would be such a huge deal if it weren't for Romulan ships having permanently reduced power levels for intermittent benefit. Is permanent -40 subsystem power worth a mild PBAOE plasma zap every couple minutes? Noooot so much. I guess you could just never ever use your singularity abilities, which means you'd only be at a permanent -30 subsystem disadvantage thanks to the core's bonus.

I believe the singularity core would be more fun and fluid if it were something like:

- Core starts fully charged when warping in.

- Core has "capacity" rated in points which slowly restores over time. Possibly boosted by Aux, or a science doff?

- Different abilities consume different amounts of points when used, and using one of these abilities incurs a self cooldown of 1 minute and only a short (15s?) system cooldown on other singularity powers rather than shutting down the core for a minute at a time.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 58
04-19-2013, 06:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
- Different abilities consume different amounts of points when used, and using one of these abilities incurs a self cooldown of 1 minute and only a short (15s?) system cooldown on other singularity powers rather than shutting down the core for a minute at a time.
This seemed to be what the system was supposed to be like from what I saw with the Dhelan warbird (has shockwave and the self heal). Using one singularity power would incur a short GCD (it may have been 15 seconds, I don't recall off the top of my head) but the entire core would be drained, and the 1 minute core CD would trigger.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,920
# 59
04-19-2013, 06:47 AM
I like cruisers, so I'm used to a low turn rate, and that doesn't bother me too much.

The boff slots some of those Romulan ships are ignorant. I assume they're a placeholder in the shipyard, but in case they're not: we do not like the boff layouts of the Star Cruiser (Ha'apax) or the Galaxy (D'deridex). At all.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 60
04-19-2013, 06:48 AM
The cores should definitely start the battle charged (after spawning)...what is the point of a surprise attack from cloak if your best weapon is never available?
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