Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 466
# 591
04-26-2013, 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
You're underestimating their potential. Also, even if they are situational, you should be constantly creating situations where they're useful.



And THAT, I agree, is the biggest problem I'm currently having with the power levels. It's one thing to have warbirds start with -10 to all power levels, but it's rubbing salt into the wounds to go give the Feds/KDF warp cores that could give up to 12.5 power points (if I'm reading it right; +5 base, and then 7.5% power from one stat into another, giving up to 7.5 points of extra power to a second, lower-powered score). vs the Singularity which gives up to 7.5 points...at full singularity charge. When discharged and/or on cooldown it gives nothing.
I'm not saying they are worthless but -40 overall power is very steep price, if they do remove bridge officer slots or consoles I'd be even more disappointed unless its just ensign or something...,
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 471
# 592
04-27-2013, 04:46 AM
People need to keep up. The devs already said they are changing the -40 to -20 and seeing how it goes.

Personally I think -20 and -1 turn rate is still a bit much for a skill on a 1 min 45 sec cooldown and a battle cloak, but it is better.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 243
# 593
04-27-2013, 05:18 AM
...and here we go again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerkorhil View Post
People need to keep up. The devs already said they are changing the -40 to -20 and seeing how it goes.

Personally I think -20 and -1 turn rate is still a bit much for a skill on a 1 min 45 sec cooldown and a battle cloak, but it is better.
You're ignoring the methods we have for reducing cooldown and charge time (which, admittedly, the T'Varo console isn't available to us yet), and the others sure to come. You're ignoring that it's not one, but a selection of five potent skills, two of which are especially useful for providing protection and cover for when you use the battle cloak. And if you'd STILL rather not play with that, there's a fine selection of ally and lockbox ships available.

Also, if you're looking at the escort-ish warbirds (Dhelan, Mogai), the -1 turn rate isn't to compensate for the cloak or singularity, it's there because of the +10% hull and x1.0 shield modifier. You're tougher than an escort, and pay a small price in maneuverability for that.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 243
# 594
04-27-2013, 06:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathofachilles View Post
My thought on that is simply... why try to reinvent the wheel? I mean, sure, maybe the power levels will turn out fine or... better? than an 8% shield penalty, but... meh.
By the same token, though, when trying to invent something new and unique, why reach for a stock wheel? Anyway, this is what Tribble is for, inciting rag...er...letting us test things before they go live.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathofachilles View Post
I think pvpers tend to invest heavily into accuracy and accuracy buffing weapons, so they may land more hits than an NPC, plus 1/3 of some uber escort's damage is all that is needed to kill you without your shields, lol. <snip> But romulan trait is supposed to be bonus defense and bonus stealth or cloak cool time reduction (depending on which they have on them or their career as 've only seen the cloak cool on romulan tacs) so the boffs may help with not taking damage... unless there's a hard defense cap you're already at/near...
I'd forgotten that surplus accuracy contributes to crit chance, so you're very probably right...although that does imply that increasing your defense so that [acc] - [def] is less than 100% also reduces part of their crit chances...but no way of knowing if that's good enough until we can put it to the test. But I can confirm the cloak cooldown trait is from the Romulan racial pool; I have it on my science officer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathofachilles View Post
Not sure how your science vessel manages that unless it's through space magic (sci skills) but then I've never managed to get sci skills to do meaningful damage, at least not when compared to an escort. And my concern is that, since weapon power dips once you open fire... a mechanic I hate... if you want the 125 dps your tool tip says you will do, you have to pour in like 145, if you want to do 100, you gotta put in 125. So not being able to get full weapon power in particular is just one super big... yeah... I really don't know how that's gonna go.
It's a combo of science skills and torpedos, and boosting weapon power in other ways. Also trying to make sure that all my damage is either gutting shields or completely bypassing them. And if it's multiple enemies who are vulnerable to Scramble Sensors, I get to borrow all their DPS for a bit too.

But yeah, nowhere near an escort's DPS, but I like to think I have more utility and versatility than an escort regardless of DPS. ...on the other hand, STO likes to think that unbridled DPS should have more utility than all other tactics combined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathofachilles View Post
A WARbird gets bonus to shields and aux? really? -.-
...um...phalanxes were highly effective in WAR in their day and were defined by their shield usage. Just sayin'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathofachilles View Post
So not only are they subtracting 10 across the board but as a cruiser... which that seems to be the boff layout they're giving the D'deridex, it's not getting the full equivalent of +5 to each subsystem? It's fine to put +10 to weapons and +10 to shields or whatever combination, but that seems like a double gimp to only be giving the +15 on top of a -10 to everything... unless that's taking into consideration -5 to everything instead... Meh... I dunno. But I'd definitely prefer them stick the +10 or probably all +15 into the weapons instead since that's the only power system that suffers from constant yo-yos in power from being in combat.
Since they haven't released the D'd to us yet, they may still change it before it's even released to Tribble. Also, the shipyard does have some incorrect information, and that's what I was relying on (for example, the Dhelan description lists a +15 weapons power boost, but it actually gets the same +10W, +5E boost that the Mogai gets).

Given all the complaints about -40% shield regen and reduced shield resists, eliminating the shield penalty for the cruiser-ish ship would be appropriate. As for the weapon power...yeah, we're just going to need to see how Singularity Overcharge works. Then again, I've never been able to make a cruiser build that's had meaningful DPS, and having to put up with the turn rate to boot...ugh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathofachilles View Post
It's not so much for npc as it is for PVP npc aren't smart, they won't try to hunt you down or scan for you or anything.
Hmmm...my only stealth experience pre-LoR was occasionally using Mask Energy Signature to sneak past groups I didn't feel like fighting during a mission, and they would DEFINITELY aggro when they spotted me. But obviously MES is significantly weaker than a cloak (you do get to keep your shields, though, which is nice).

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathofachilles View Post
Well my thought was maybe I am supposed to be/would want to be stealthy and behind the scenes and not drawing attention... Meh, I dunno. could always respec if I found not having threat control to be super lame.
Oooh...you want to try NOT tanking! Gotcha. (In a D'deridex?) Let's see...I can see a few possible sets of tactics for incorporating the cloak and singularity here. The key would be the transitions in and out of cloak, since they'd be what are "new" to your playstyle.

Coming out of cloak is easy. Pick a vulnerable facing prep as many skills as you can "pre-load" while cloaked, then drop it and hammer them. EPtW and Tac Team are your friends here. You're going to want to front-load as much DPS into one burst as possible. Even if you're going with a cannon build, it might be worth it to load up one beam array (Experimental Romulan Plasma array, so it's not biting into your weapon power) among your cannons so you can use Target Shield Subsystem (if the final BOff layout gives you enough tac skills to afford the slot, that is). Once your assault is over, you should have the endurance to fight it out until your singularity's up again.

Then you switch to your "exit strategy"; how to do the most damage while ending up safely cloaked and ready to do it all again. Pop either Evasive Maneuvers, Aux to Inertial Dampeners or EPtE and charge your target (or the center of a group of targets) while laying down Warp Plasma, and when you get to the center, execute Singularity Jump. It's supposed to pull enemies in, so they can enjoy basking in your plasma trail, decloaks any enemies who might be trying to out-sneaksy you, and they get accuracy, damage, and perception nerfed so they miss your shields dropping as you cloak. I'd consider having one of three minelayers in an aft slot: tricobalt for AoE damage to the group, cloaked tractor mines to keep the enemies in the Singularity as long as possible, or the Breen transphasic cluster torp. If you have tricobalt or the tractor mines, drop them right before you do the jump, if you have the cluster torp, pop it right afterwards. All three are good for punishing fast ships that have the audacity to get behind you, too. Depending on timing, cooldowns and your current condition, you may be able to use EPtE or EM to get your nose around so you can drop your cloak again after three seconds and get another "coming out of cloak" damage bonus while they're still helpless (depends on how long SJ's black hole lasts, which might depend on charge level). Even if you remain cloaked, your allies have a nice cluster of badly impaired enemies to hose down with Torp Spreads (whose splash damage will hit everyone else in the cluster) or Cannon Spray. Bonus points if your allies can drop a Gravity Well well or two on the site of your singularity.

Thoughts?

Last edited by hyouki; 04-27-2013 at 06:35 AM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 466
# 595
04-27-2013, 07:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerkorhil View Post
People need to keep up. The devs already said they are changing the -40 to -20 and seeing how it goes.

Personally I think -20 and -1 turn rate is still a bit much for a skill on a 1 min 45 sec cooldown and a battle cloak, but it is better.
they said they were going to test that but It didn't sound to me at all like it was necessarily the solution they were looking for and that they might go back at anytime.

Also that build which they changed it is not on the test server at all.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 183
# 596
04-27-2013, 11:01 AM
Here are my Singularity Power thoughts:

1. Singularity power drain. I like the idea of power draining over time once combat has stopped but I have two ideas. 1, slow or stall when power starts draining from a completed pip, if I have 2.5 pips filled once it drains to 2 it should wait a good 10 seconds before draining from that so I can move to the next group of enemies and have a singularity ready. 2, when Singularity hits 5, make it a 30 second drain delay that way powers like singularity overload can be used as a full power alpha strike when entering the next combat group.

2. Warp Shadows, I feel this ability could use some adjusting so here we go:

When you activate warp shadow, instead of you jumping and then creating shadows how about this; Upon activation the ability creates warp shadows equal to your level, including one right where you were when you activated the ability. The shadows generate hate/agro for dealing with NPC enemies.

When the shadows appear, you do a random jump, but maintain looking at your initial target, if you had one. You then immediately gain a 'perfect cloak' for 5 seconds, with each Singularity level adding 2 seconds on to it for a total of 10 seconds.

3. Singularity jump, either increase the range of the gravity pull effect or allow levels 3 and 5 to generate additional singularities. NPCs are pulling out of these things, and I mean cruisers, without the use of any engine abilities.

4 Singularity Overload: While active Singularity overload should negate weapon power drain and keep weapon power systems from going offline, or at least have a resist to it.

We have nothing. Nothing but our anger. We will take that spark and start a fire which will become a great conflagration!
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 471
# 597
04-27-2013, 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alastorforthrigh View Post
3. Singularity jump, either increase the range of the gravity pull effect or allow levels 3 and 5 to generate additional singularities. NPCs are pulling out of these things, and I mean cruisers, without the use of any engine abilities.
Frankly I can't believe, considering the dev in charge claims it helps make up for the ships poor turn rate, that using Singularity Jump doesn't turn your ship 180 degrees after using it so that you face the newly formed singularity.

As it is it does not help at all.
Ensign
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3
# 598
04-27-2013, 11:45 AM
Overall, I'm really enjoying the LoR closed beta. I absolutely hated the new UI, at first, but it has come a long way. I really have a hard time going back to Holodeck at this point. My main concern is the BOff layouts on the Rommie ships. Currently there are NO ships that are even workable for an ENG or SCI at Tier 5. Everything seems skewed to the TAC path. Please tell me this will change. I need to be able to use Grav Well 3 as a Romulan SCI. Thanks!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 599
04-27-2013, 12:00 PM
At least the D'deridex went fom a terrible Boff layout to a boring one. Maybe I?m spoiled a bit, but I find ships unappealing that have no Lt.Com station "out-of-specialty" or at least universal options.

We only really have 5 Romulan ships so far. Regardless of refits, retrofits and whatsnot, it's only five.
Only Internet users deal in absolutes !
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 629
# 600
04-27-2013, 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by qjunior View Post
At least the D'deridex went fom a terrible Boff layout to a boring one. Maybe I?m spoiled a bit, but I find ships unappealing that have no Lt.Com station "out-of-specialty" or at least universal options.

We only really have 5 Romulan ships so far. Regardless of refits, retrofits and whatsnot, it's only five.
I rather like the trend the first few tiers set: top end tac but the science boffs have the same number of abilites spread between them, just not as high ranked, and think they need to continue that all the way up to tier 5 then add a second lineup that does that with engineering and science.

Such a lineup at tier 5 could give us a ship possibly with Cmd Tac, ens Tac, Lt Eng, LtC Sci, Lt Sci, as well as a ship with: Lt Tac, Cmd Eng, Ens Eng, LtC Sci, Lt Sci. (tier 4 would give us Cmd Tac, Lt Eng lt Sci, Lt Sci, and a Lt Tac, Cmd eng, lt sci, lt sci)

Being high science would fit in with the tricky, subversive nature of Romulans just as being tac heavy on KDF ships fits the Klingon's agressive nature. Those are also fairly unique layouts, starting with the d'deridex and into tier 5, the layouts all seem to be fairly mundane: we've seen them all before.

Last edited by raptor63549; 04-27-2013 at 12:43 PM.
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