Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 661
05-01-2013, 09:54 PM
Ie. I want all the goodies and free battle cloak, at zero cost perfect way to balance things.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 666
# 662
05-01-2013, 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Ie. I want all the goodies and free battle cloak, at zero cost perfect way to balance things.
Very few people are saying that, and I haven't seen anyone recently say that, so really nice exageration.

Explain why most Battle Cloaks are 20 seconds, and yet Romulans, the Dev-mentioned masters of stealth, get a sub-standard 40 second Battle Cloak, just because they get a Trait, that when used with their BOffs, will now take them to... 20 seconds.

So the dev-mentioned masters of stealth, really aren't. They have to work with sub-standard equipment, to be the equals of everyone else. Not really all that great.

In the mean time, the KDF gets to keep their 20 second battle cloaks, and have BOffs that can buff other aspects.

Oh, and these other goodies, we're already being hit with a -5 energy reduction to all aspectsto make up for them. Those goodies also can only be used, if I understand the new notes right, every 45 seconds or so. So a few powers that we can only use ever ~45 seconds, we're already loosing 20 energy. You know I can live with that.

But becuase the devs over powered the traits of Romulan BOffs and Captain traits, traits that I may add are entirely optional, our baseline cloak is now WORSE then the KDF and the Federation cloaks, and can only really made equal to the KDF and Federation cloaks by giving up all other BOff enhancements.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 663
05-01-2013, 10:16 PM
Actually, the fed cloak is still worst, because it cost console, but that is not the issue here. I do not understand the latest change much like you - maybe it is because romulans have easy access to that trait. No idea, It is poor way to balance stuff around traits.

But if you check the whole discussion, the longer it drags, the less and less drawbacks there are and still people are not happy. So my sarcasm was aimed more at the people that are still not happy, and it will eventually lead to a free singularity powers and battlecloak.

Even the originially horrible Fleet D'Deridex is shaping to be much better ship than it's Fed mirror.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 702
# 664
05-01-2013, 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Ie. I want all the goodies and free battle cloak, at zero cost perfect way to balance things.
Was that a response to me?

The guy asking to have no singularity powers? At all.

And if you have to balance the battle cloak (which in addition to having a 40s cooldown can also get you killed if you use it wrong), I'll take lower hull, lower shields, slower turning, or just slower in general, but I will not tolerate low power settings... Id even take no battle cloak...

So I'm not asking for "all the goodies" or a "free battle cloak". I want no stupid charge up and situational powers. I want my power levels to not be lowered.

And if I can have a battle cloak, Id say 40s worth of cooldown is balanced (considering thats a full 20s longer than Fed or KDF cloaking) but if its not, fine, I'll take a hull hit or something, but not power.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 201
# 665
05-01-2013, 10:53 PM
We're still testing possible ways of tweaking the Cloaking, power levels, singularity, etc. to ensure that the Romulans have a fun - and balanced - gameplay experience. None of the tuning points you're seeing in Beta are necessarily final.

The current iteration of Romulan Battle Cloak isn't intended to be a nerf to compensate for the Romulan racial trait. Rather, it comes from feedback from our internal testing, which indicated that Romulan ships were getting far too survivable compared to other factions when taking into account all their abilities.

Romulan Battle Cloak is, by default, harder to detect than Klingon Battle Cloaking - and only becomes easier to detect if you cloak at a high singularity level (roughly 60%) or higher. This is not taking into account the Romulan racial bonus to Cloaking, which makes it even harder to detect.

With these factors taken into consideration, as well as the added defensive capabilities of Singularity abilities, it was proving to be too easy to for Romulan ships to escape from combat without risk.

We still see Romulans as being experts at Cloaking technology, and that's why all their Warbirds have Battle Cloak and such a high base Stealth value. From a game mechanics standpoint, though, we still have to make sure they are properly balanced against other factions.

We are constantly discussing and testing different types of changes internally. Balance is an iterative process, and any time any type of ship has disadvantages when compared to another ship, *someone* is going to be disappointed.

If we give Romulans cloaking that is just better than Klingon cloaking in every way, there has to be a cost associated with that to maintain balance. As it stands, the base power level differences between Warbirds and other ships have not, in our testing, proven sufficient to compensate for both having a globally superior Cloak with no disadvantages and access to all of the Singularity powers. We may end up reverting to the 40 base power that all Warbirds used to have and giving the Romulans a globally superior cloak, or we might end up balancing these things in other ways - it's still an open discussion on the design team. We are paying close attention to player feedback and appreciate your comments.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 666
05-01-2013, 10:58 PM
Now, that's what I call proper dev response. Thumbs up archon!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 666
# 667
05-01-2013, 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
We still see Romulans as being experts at Cloaking technology, and that's why all their Warbirds have Battle Cloak and such a high base Stealth value. From a game mechanics standpoint, though, we still have to make sure they are properly balanced against other factions.
I understand it needs to be balanced, but how can they be experts at Cloaking technology, if their cloaks take literally an entire battle to recharge? It becomes nothing more then a situational cloak.

Even in STFs and Fleet Mark battles, most of the "chunks" in the battles either don't require cloak at all, or happen in less incriments then 40 seconds. Heck Donatra cloaks faster then 40 seconds, so the Borgs have better cloaking technology then the Romulans do?

So as a question about balance, I thought the -5 energy to all systems was the balancing factor. Internally I assume that wasn't enough of a balance, or are you forgetting about that? The Romulan ships already turn slower then their KDF counterparts (except for a few) and yet that's not enough Balance for you? The KDF already has more ships with universal consoles, but that's not enough Balance either?

Can you let us know at least what factors you're trying to "balance" so maybe we can help you out? Because right now, its beginning to look a whole lot like the "balance" you did to the KDF at launch compared to the Federation, where it took years to get the KDF to be viable again.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 702
# 668
05-01-2013, 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
We're still testing possible ways of tweaking the Cloaking, power levels, singularity, etc. to ensure that the Romulans have a fun - and balanced - gameplay experience. None of the tuning points you're seeing in Beta are necessarily final.

The current iteration of Romulan Battle Cloak isn't intended to be a nerf to compensate for the Romulan racial trait. Rather, it comes from feedback from our internal testing, which indicated that Romulan ships were getting far too survivable compared to other factions when taking into account all their abilities.

Romulan Battle Cloak is, by default, harder to detect than Klingon Battle Cloaking - and only becomes easier to detect if you cloak at a high singularity level (roughly 60%) or higher. This is not taking into account the Romulan racial bonus to Cloaking, which makes it even harder to detect.

With these factors taken into consideration, as well as the added defensive capabilities of Singularity abilities, it was proving to be too easy to for Romulan ships to escape from combat without risk.

We still see Romulans as being experts at Cloaking technology, and that's why all their Warbirds have Battle Cloak and such a high base Stealth value. From a game mechanics standpoint, though, we still have to make sure they are properly balanced against other factions.

We are constantly discussing and testing different types of changes internally. Balance is an iterative process, and any time any type of ship has disadvantages when compared to another ship, *someone* is going to be disappointed.

If we give Romulans cloaking that is just better than Klingon cloaking in every way, there has to be a cost associated with that to maintain balance. As it stands, the base power level differences between Warbirds and other ships have not, in our testing, proven sufficient to compensate for both having a globally superior Cloak with no disadvantages and access to all of the Singularity powers. We may end up reverting to the 40 base power that all Warbirds used to have and giving the Romulans a globally superior cloak, or we might end up balancing these things in other ways - it's still an open discussion on the design team. We are paying close attention to player feedback and appreciate your comments.
Can not stress that I would like the option to opt out of having to have the singularity powers and meter. (Including the decreased stealth at higher singularity levels).

Balance the cloak however you need... but dont mess with the power levels of the ship.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 775
# 669
05-01-2013, 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
We're still testing possible ways of tweaking the Cloaking, power levels, singularity, etc. to ensure that the Romulans have a fun - and balanced - gameplay experience. None of the tuning points you're seeing in Beta are necessarily final.

The current iteration of Romulan Battle Cloak isn't intended to be a nerf to compensate for the Romulan racial trait. Rather, it comes from feedback from our internal testing, which indicated that Romulan ships were getting far too survivable compared to other factions when taking into account all their abilities.

Romulan Battle Cloak is, by default, harder to detect than Klingon Battle Cloaking - and only becomes easier to detect if you cloak at a high singularity level (roughly 60%) or higher. This is not taking into account the Romulan racial bonus to Cloaking, which makes it even harder to detect.

With these factors taken into consideration, as well as the added defensive capabilities of Singularity abilities, it was proving to be too easy to for Romulan ships to escape from combat without risk.

We still see Romulans as being experts at Cloaking technology, and that's why all their Warbirds have Battle Cloak and such a high base Stealth value. From a game mechanics standpoint, though, we still have to make sure they are properly balanced against other factions.

We are constantly discussing and testing different types of changes internally. Balance is an iterative process, and any time any type of ship has disadvantages when compared to another ship, *someone* is going to be disappointed.

If we give Romulans cloaking that is just better than Klingon cloaking in every way, there has to be a cost associated with that to maintain balance. As it stands, the base power level differences between Warbirds and other ships have not, in our testing, proven sufficient to compensate for both having a globally superior Cloak with no disadvantages and access to all of the Singularity powers. We may end up reverting to the 40 base power that all Warbirds used to have and giving the Romulans a globally superior cloak, or we might end up balancing these things in other ways - it's still an open discussion on the design team. We are paying close attention to player feedback and appreciate your comments.
Thanks for popping in and posting. Any chance you could post in this thread http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=643611 to let us know what's going on internally?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 772
# 670
05-01-2013, 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amayakitsune View Post
Can not stress that I would like the option to opt out of having to have the singularity powers and meter. (Including the decreased stealth at higher singularity levels).

Balance the cloak however you need... but dont mess with the power levels of the ship.
So play a Klingon? They have ships with cloaks and battle cloaks with higher power levels and no singularity levels. Romulan ships will be different - as they should be.
Ainu - Join Date: Aug 2008
Foundry Missions: 1) The Source of Power (ST-HSWUBD5TQ) [Federation] 16+
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