Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 702
# 671
05-01-2013, 11:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangolight View Post
So play a Klingon? They have ships with cloaks and battle cloaks with higher power levels and no singularity levels. Romulan ships will be different - as they should be.
I dont want to play a Klingon? I want to fly a Mogai without gimmicks... I want to play a Romulan... Honestly, the people who say "You dont like "blank", go play this other thing instead." are jerks. (Also... I already have a level 50 KDF character... so you know... been there, done that)

I want to fly a Romulan ship, as a Romulan character with no gimmicky charging powers. Id prefer to do it with the Romulan battle cloak (which is actually different from the KDF version). Id prefer to do it without my power levels being gimped, but I'll even tolerate that if I can remove everything even relating to the singularity system off of my ship.

I agree... the Romulan ships should be different... thats great. But I should be able to opt out of that system. (And honestly, the fix is to allow warbirds to equip M/ARA cores and then require a singularity core to enable the singularity system). It should be an option, Im not saying it should be standard... but it should really be an option.

Last edited by amayakitsune; 05-01-2013 at 11:41 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,798
# 672
05-01-2013, 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by archoncryptic View Post
If we give Romulans cloaking that is just better than Klingon cloaking in every way, there has to be a cost associated with that to maintain balance. As it stands, the base power level differences between Warbirds and other ships have not, in our testing, proven sufficient to compensate for both having a globally superior Cloak with no disadvantages and access to all of the Singularity powers. We may end up reverting to the 40 base power that all Warbirds used to have and giving the Romulans a globally superior cloak, or we might end up balancing these things in other ways - it's still an open discussion on the design team. We are paying close attention to player feedback and appreciate your comments.
Had to edit the massive ranting wall of insane person text.

Basically changes to the Romulan Battle Cloak I like it.

Bad problem is the B'rel and T'varo unless LoR is going to make it where they can fire torpedoes and compete in the DPS race I do not think anyone can stomach that after the problems of the b'rel in past few years and how it still has so many drawbacks yet today still.

Just to outline what I am talking about and to the design team just to see where I am coming from because usually the Enhanced Battle Cloak issue is not discussed at all.

First thing is the 3 second decloak, all the massive amount of sci abilities that disable a ship, disable cloak, or seek out like the emission torpedo and the fact it has no shields while in this mode are heavy heavy heavy drawbacks and at one point in the past you could go heavy sci power but those days are over you either fire 5 gazillion transphasic torpedoes and stay decloaked defeating the purpose or in pve with plasmas wait for plasma DoT's to kill a target or in PvP hope your target has never heard of brace for impact or hazard emitters.

To sum it up there is no tactics involved with using this ship if you are to use it you have to rely on several other players to keep a shield facing down it just becomes a nightmare to try to play with this ship. I don't believe it should ever be an I win ship but we either need some changes to the mechanics of some boff powers, ship consoles, d-store items or something that can give some tactics for fun ways to play the B'rel and the T'varo.

(Oh yes one last thing that has drove me crazier than usual is why a B'rel in its form most likely the most unwanted KDF ship in its current form the fleet version is a tier 5 and the t'varo is a tier 1 lol... even if I was in a fleet with a tier 5 shipyard I most likely would not buy it because of the most obvious reasons stated)

Last edited by zeuxidemus001; 05-02-2013 at 12:01 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 807
# 673
05-02-2013, 12:05 AM
Yes the T'Varo and B'Rel...

What exactly justifies the T'Varos stats been so much better then the B'Rels? Both have EBC but the B'Rel is like a shuttle in comparison...

-= ISE: 12:19 -=- CSE 12:41 -=- KASE 11:59 -=- HSe 8:06 total =-
-= KAGE 5:43 =-
[7:07] [Combat (Self)] Your Dual Disruptor Banks - Overload II deals 123086 (41096) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 674
05-02-2013, 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostusthorn View Post
Yes the T'Varo and B'Rel...

What exactly justifies the T'Varos stats been so much better then the B'Rels? Both have EBC but the B'Rel is like a shuttle in comparison...
That's a mystery much like Fleet Galaxy vs. Fleet Negh'Var. It seems we simply have to accept that some ships are simply better than their counterparts.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,798
# 675
05-02-2013, 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostusthorn View Post
Yes the T'Varo and B'Rel...

What exactly justifies the T'Varos stats been so much better then the B'Rels? Both have EBC but the B'Rel is like a shuttle in comparison...
Its the current theme make the new ship better but leave the older ones right where they are at so players will buy the newer one.

Edit: Oh yeah the irony is the T'varo Fleet ship is tier 1 shipyard and Fleet B'rel is a Tier 5 shipyard go figure...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
That's a mystery much like Fleet Galaxy vs. Fleet Negh'Var. It seems we simply have to accept that some ships are simply better than their counterparts.
You could be right but the word built should be changed to "cut and paste"

Last edited by zeuxidemus001; 05-02-2013 at 12:17 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 807
# 676
05-02-2013, 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amayakitsune View Post
I dont want to play a Klingon? I want to fly a Mogai without gimmicks... I want to play a Romulan... Honestly, the people who say "You dont like "blank", go play this other thing instead." are jerks. (Also... I already have a level 50 KDF character... so you know... been there, done that)

I want to fly a Romulan ship, as a Romulan character with no gimmicky charging powers. Id prefer to do it with the Romulan battle cloak (which is actually different from the KDF version). Id prefer to do it without my power levels being gimped, but I'll even tolerate that if I can remove everything even relating to the singularity system off of my ship.

I agree... the Romulan ships should be different... thats great. But I should be able to opt out of that system. (And honestly, the fix is to allow warbirds to equip M/ARA cores and then require a singularity core to enable the singularity system). It should be an option, Im not saying it should be standard... but it should really be an option.
You know, I have to agree. The whole singularity stuff is a gimmick, pure and simple. Besides Rom ships never showed anything remotely like those stuff in the shows. Its usage is highly situational at best. And just useless at worst.
It is like they where designed to make players ohhh shiny, want want.
There is no way to balance those powers together with the battlecloaks and be fair and not render the rom ships into useless junk.

A small example, lets say we cut power by -40, that would translate into equivalent of 10 purple mk12 eng power consoles. If we cut it by -20 as it is right now, it is still 5 eng consoles equivalent.
So, if we remove the power penalty, do we reduce the console count by 5-10? Hardly practical since it would render the ships useless in the true meaning of the word.

How about this:

1) Singularity cores act just warp cores, plain and simple, just copy the stats over and rename the item. Done.
2) A new universal console only useable on warbirds, Call it the singularity combat harness or something. Comes in different versions, each version holds one singularity power at common, 2 powers at uncommon and 3 powers at rare, 4 powers at very rare Heck add a 5 power ultra rare/fleet version. And each power reduces the subsystems energy levels by 1. You can further mix it up by having single power versions with higher quality and lower power drain.
3) so a player can chose how to outfit her ship to a more fine grained detail, use no singuliarty stuff, get full power, or slot the combat harness and take the power hit for the stuff they want to use. And as side benefit, you also get a scaling power reduction with increasing use of the singularity powers compared to the same power drain across the board like now. And get the balancing factor between console count and singularity powers thrown in for free as well.

-= ISE: 12:19 -=- CSE 12:41 -=- KASE 11:59 -=- HSe 8:06 total =-
-= KAGE 5:43 =-
[7:07] [Combat (Self)] Your Dual Disruptor Banks - Overload II deals 123086 (41096) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 677
05-02-2013, 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeuxidemus001 View Post
You could be right but the word built should be changed to "cut and paste"
Huh ? I bet you do not want me to repeat what stuff Fleet Negh'Var gets for meager 1100 hull points. Base stats have nothing to do with builds, but ship stat budgets. And that T'Var has pretty generous stat budget.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 579
# 678
05-02-2013, 12:39 AM
I kind of agree to the singularity core/power being a tacked on gimmick. The warbirds were advertises as "play a warbird and harness the power of the singularity core!" and I was like 'say what?'. Singularity cores were hardly the first thing that came to mind when I thought of romulan warbirds. Cloaking, though, seemed very relevant.

However, I don't want to be insensitive to the effort the Devs have put into this little brainchild of theirs - they probably have a lot invested in the singularity core concept by now and people like Archon are probably attached to the idea of 'making it work'.

Thing is, at low tiers, it's probably not much of a problem. Tier .5 ships (think Nova vs. Rhode Island) boasted an extra console slot holding a new power and slightly better bridge officer seating (2 Lt Sci). We can all acknowledge it's better, but not to the point where the power creep leaves the Nova all that much behind.

It's kind of the same deal with the Tier 1 warbird - it sort of equates a Tier 1.5 KDF Raider. It has that extra conditional power... but the B'rel isn't left behind all that much, and still has its distinctive all universal bridge seating.

It's in higher-level warbirds that it gets more touchy... at Tier 5, you've got 5 extra powers, still conditional with shared cooldown. That's more or less equivalent to a console set like the Vesta's (in which you can only use one console at a time). So, the power creep between a Klingon destroyer like the Peghqu' and a Tier 5 Mogai warbird is probably a 3 console difference.

3 universal consoles with adjoining set bonuses/capstones. That's probably what having the singularity core at endgame means balance-wise.

...so, the Battle cloak is probably not a problem. It's compensating for the singularity features that is.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 491
# 679
05-02-2013, 01:01 AM
A couple of the most recent people kind of hit the nail on the head on what I was thinking, but couldn't put into words.

When I think Romulan Warbirds, I think nasty, sneaky, cloaking ships with superior cloak that are a pain in the neck to find, and scare you simply because you don't know when they're going to pop out of warp.

I do not think of fancy singularity gimicks. Heck, even Shinzon, didn't have the Scimitar with warp shadows, and warp jumps, and singularity explosions, it was just losts of firepower with a near perfect cloak.

Enterprise... the Romulan ships were lots of firepower, and really decent cloaks. DS9, I don't remember the Federation wanting the Romulans on their side because they could warp shadow. They wanted them for lots of firepower, and really really good cloaks.

So, in developing STO Romulans, I think the devs are beginning to lose their focus on what it means to be Romulan, in the name of balance and gimmicks. We're loosing power, for the gimmicks already, I get it, but loosing the cloak so we can balance off the gimmicks? That's certainly not Romulan.
Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 347
# 680
05-02-2013, 01:03 AM
If they really want to balance things out, then make Warbird hulls weaker. Seriously.

Make Romulan ships not comparable in hull strength to Starfleet or Klingon vessels. That way we will need the battle cloak and singularity powers to even the odds against them.

It would also explain why the D'Deridex and Ha'apax fly like whales, they sacrifice mobility for the extra hull strength.

Legacy of Romulus - Closed Beta - Round 1 Playtester

Last edited by malakhglitch; 05-02-2013 at 01:04 AM. Reason: spelling correction
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