Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 176
# 751
05-03-2013, 05:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kasandaro
did y'all re-revert the cloak? I just cycled mine and it came up with a 30s cooldown. I've got 35% cooldown, so if I'm doing the math right, that puts the base cloak at 40s. Do I need to drop and regrab the mogai?
ugh, never mind. reading comprehension fail. "will be rolled back".

Last edited by kasandaro; 05-03-2013 at 05:48 AM. Reason: I am an idiot.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 243
# 752
05-03-2013, 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amayakitsune View Post
And you know... that would be a valid argument if I had said:

"They should completely remove the singularity mechanic entirely because I said so."

However, what I said (and I have said from the beginning) is:

"I want to fly a Romulan Warbird, but this singularity thing isnt for me. Can there be an option to not have to use it?"

Never said I was the only person playing this game. Never even insinuated it. Never said no one should be able to use the singularity system because I dont like it... but I did say that there should be an option for people who dont like it to be able to opt out of using it, without being penalized.
Psst...ally ships...lockboxes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amayakitsune View Post
Not really. A gimmick is something (more often than not shoehorned) into an existing or new product that would not hamper the operation of said product if it wasnt there. (Having a special feature for the sake of having a special feature...) Examples:

Wii motion controls
the 3D function on the Nintendo 3DS.
Xbox Kinect
PlayStation Move
The WiiU's tablet controller
The rear touch pad on the PSVita

If none of those existed, the consoles they are related to would still function just fine* (and in the case of the 3DS, you can turn off the 3D and not have to use it).

*With the possible exception of the Wii, as with out motion control, it might not have ever existed in the first place. But the majority of games do use it for anything more than inputs that could have easily been handled by a button.

So while the above are gimmicks; player abilities, BOff/Companion abilities and gear are pretty essential to the function of an MMO (or even just an RPG in general). The DOff system could be considered one, yes. But if it is, its one that you dont have to use. Id even go so far to say most of the CStore consoles are gimmicks in some form (eg the Impulse Burst or Subspace Jump).

The Singularity system is definitely a gimmick. Its a special feature to make the Romulans stand out, just because having a special feature seemed like a good idea.
So, as virusdancer pointed out, EVERYTHING is a gimmick.

Fleet holdings? We got along fine without it before, gimmick, worthless, toss it out.
Reputation? We got along fine without it before, gimmick, worthless, toss it out.
DOff system? We got along fine without it before, gimmick, worthless, toss it out.

Hell, by your definition, the Romulan faction itself is a gimmick.

It never ends. Once you have a viable game, ANY new addition becomes a gimmick because taking it away gives us...a functional game, just like we had before. And that's why I find this attitude toxic, because you (and people like you) would have us stay at a standstill to prevent the game from becoming too gimmicky.

And the reason I'm opposed to there being the option of using a warp core instead is because new systems like this need intertia to survive. Without a critical mass of players using a system, it will not get properly developed or balanced, and it is in serious danger of being cut out entirely. If too many people just ignore the system and take the easy, bog-standard, everybody's-doing-it warp core route, they cannot justify putting resources and time into developing the singularity system properly, and could well abandon it. It's not even out yet, for crying out loud. And this is why I have to keep arguing against the "I don't wanna use it" people, precisely for the same reason you're arguing against singularity system. "The devs should hear my opinion." Great. Same here. I don't want the only thing the devs hear to be "I don't want to use it"; I want them also to hear "it looks good, I like it." I want them to keep it alive so I can try it and test it at level 50, properly geared, in eSTFs, so I can see how it REALLY shines or fails.

You have been given an out. You do not HAVE to use this system, but it will require you to invest something. If you are so vehemently opposed to using the singularity system, put your dilithium where your mouth is and fly an ally's ship, or a lockbox ship at tier 5.

Last edited by hyouki; 05-03-2013 at 07:34 AM. Reason: I accidentally a few words.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 40
# 753
05-03-2013, 06:10 AM
Just recently got the D'Deridex and Its definetly no worse than ships of its mass, I do have a problem with the Singularity Jump that becomes available with it, you use it and jump onto your target, unfortunetly I don't think the D'Deridex is manouverable enough to utilise the skill probably.

I also think that is the one singularity skill I won't really use.

Last edited by jtoon74; 05-03-2013 at 06:12 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 80
# 754
05-03-2013, 06:50 AM
Just got my D'Deridex and my initial thoughts:

#1 - BOFF Seating finally appears to be at least somewhat fixed (they show up!!!)

#2 - I have NO, absolutely NO idea what these people are talking about with saying that this ship is the worst ship they have seen since the Galaxy. It is not an escort and should not be flown as such, but I think it is just as viable as a Vor'Cha battle cruiser...

#3 - Has anyone else noticed the following: Subterfuge has a "Button" for some reason, I thought it was a passive skill, not an ability. Also for some reason when you activate cloak all the singularity skills are put on 5 sec cooldown.
Admiral Sovak
USS Dauntless

Admiral Jisil T'ror
USS Lexington
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 243
# 755
05-03-2013, 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtoon74 View Post
Just recently got the D'Deridex and Its definetly no worse than ships of its mass, I do have a problem with the Singularity Jump that becomes available with it, you use it and jump onto your target, unfortunetly I don't think the D'Deridex is manouverable enough to utilise the skill probably.

I also think that is the one singularity skill I won't really use.
The movement in SJ is the side bonus; the real power is in the perception/accuracy debuff.

What you do is start dropping warp plasma and use evasive maneuvers to slather it over your enemy (bonus points if you can get an ally to drop a gravity well there too) and THEN jump away. The warp plasma keeps them from moving away from the singularity, and the singularity keeps them from moving away from the plasma. While they're stuck there, their perception is nerfed so hard they may not even be able to see you to target you, and even if they can their accuracy is shot. All the while they're getting chewed up by the plasma and singularity damage (although the latter is, tbh, rather insignificant).

You, on the other hand, are 5 km away taking advantage of their blindness to turn on your cloak, allowing you to spin around and get a strike-from-stealth bonus on your helpless opponent.

Even if you have multiple enemies or are in a ship that can't drop the plasma, if you drop it nearby, all but the lightest ships should be in range of the effect long enough for you to escape into cloak.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 451
# 756
05-03-2013, 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Hyouki's actually right on the meta-level if one stops to think about it.

Every Captain ability is a gimmick.
Every BOFF ability is a gimmick.
Every DOFF is a gimmick.
Every piece of gear is a gimmick.
Everything...is...a gimmick.
That's a matter of perspective, but its certainly not star trek canon design, but a game play design.

So if game mechanics = gimmicks then yes to you that is what they are but, not everyone wants a certain gimmick in hyouki's terms and yours, pushed on them and then penalized for., to a ships that they have wanted.

But I am fine with the current design, except I'd make power levels be based on singularity charge at max charge they would have normal 50 across the board, at least then people who don't want to use the powers don't have to and not be completely penalized for it.

Last edited by cryptkeeper0; 05-03-2013 at 10:24 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 243
# 757
05-03-2013, 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cryptkeeper0 View Post
That's a matter of perspective, but its certainly not star trek canon design, but a game play design.

So if game mechanics = gimmicks then yes to you that is what they are but, not everyone wants a certain gimmick in hyouki's terms and yours, pushed on them and then penalized for., to a ships that they have wanted.

But I am fine with the current design, except I'd make power levels be based on singularity charge at max charge they would have normal 50 across the board, at least then people who don't want to use the powers don't have to and not be completely penalized for it.
Not my terms, I'm quoting singularity opponents who are dismissing the singularity powers as "gimmicks".

And no, you will never see "let the fully charged singularity give full power levels" because then you would be the equivalent of a Fed or KDF captain PLUS a Battle Cloak PLUS the ability to unleash any of those singularity powers any time you felt like it would be useful, and that's not balanced in the slightest.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 758
05-03-2013, 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
And no, you will never see "let the fully charged singularity give full power levels" because then you would be the equivalent of a Fed or KDF captain PLUS a Battle Cloak PLUS the ability to unleash any of those singularity powers any time you felt like it would be useful, and that's not balanced in the slightest.
Incorrect. Full singularity charge is (going to be) the equivalent of having 55 base power. The downside is that using a singularity power drops that down to 40 base power.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 416
# 759
05-03-2013, 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
its absolutely imperative that the turn rate for the 2 big warbirds be increased though, no singularity power, battle cloak or station setup will save them from always on worst turn rate ever
Couldn't agree more...as I've reiterate several times since LoR was announced I was, was being the operative word, so very excited about flying the D'Deridex Warbird. But the fact that the ship has a carrier turn rate really bothers me. No change to RCS consoles or more maneuverability while cloaked solves this problem. It seems like all my favorite ships in this game, excluding maybe the Excel, have been made to be inferior to other ships. Really takes away from my game play experience when all my favorite ships are bad and I have to use something I don't care about/like which will be the case yet again if I choose to roll a romulan/reman character.


U.S.S. Mary Celeste
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 997
# 760
05-03-2013, 01:12 PM
Not really relevant to the conversation, but more of a general thought about STO's space combat: The problem is that none of these things; the battlecloak; the singularity powers, and the tactics that may evolve around them, are necessary to our survival in 95% of the PvE combat, at any difficultly level.

You can just do the same old thing over and over with any ship in STO, and be successful. It's a shame that this has become the case, because back in STO's closed beta every space battle I took part in was a life and death struggle; where the outcome of success was dependent on what speed I was going, what my position was in relation to the enemy ship, and what abilities and batteries I clicked at exactly the right time. Now, I'm not a hardcore kind of gamer, but to me that was the most fun I'd had in an MMO up to that point.

Back then these things meant something, now these days I can literally park my ship at zero velocity, point in the direction of the enemy ship and mark time until they're dead. The only way new powers/abilities and gameplay styles in STO are going to be taken more seriously is if they are absolutely necessary to our survival in any given situation.
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U.S.S. Endeavour NCC-91771 - Nebula-class
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Leave nothing unattempted" - James Cook
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