Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,223
# 801
05-05-2013, 02:08 PM
You're not exactly one of the common fodder from that particular subforum though.

Let's just leave it at that.
--------------------------------------

"We are smart." - Grebnedlog

Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 32
# 802
05-05-2013, 02:47 PM
I should mention that I am not part of the closed Beta, and haven't flown any of the ships or tried any of the mechanics discussed here. I have read the entire thread to this point, however, and have noticed a few issues that keep cropping up. I hope my input might, therefor, be useful.

  1. Balancing the fact that all of the new Romulan ships have Battle Cloak -- somewhere in here is the current 'Rom ships are too survivable' issue.
  2. Balancing the singularity core, tweaking the mechanics used, and accounting for the impact of the various singularity powers.
  3. Giving Romulans a distinct new flavor; a in-game experience which feel distinctly different and uniquely Romulan.

The first two issues might be best addressed testing them sequentially -- ie, not at the same time. Hyouki will most assuredly object, but for testing purposes only a singularity core with no powers and no power penalty needs to be made available. This would allow the devs to get metrics on "Warbirds with just Battle Cloaks" vs all other ships, and get the balance of those ships right.

<opinion>
Don't reinvent the wheel here, and don't try to fix the problem by fixing stuff too far away from the source of the problem. If the Romulan BC is too much better than the KDF BC, then make the Rom BC less of an upgrade. If the new Traits give too big a boost to the cloak, reduce the effect of the trait. If a ship has too much shield or hull, reduce the shield and/or hull. By creating a big-buff problem in one spot and then trying to balance it by nerfing in other areas, an extremely difficult balancing act is created -- the problem spreads by affecting a dozen or more other unexpected areas. Each of those adjustments cascades over into yet more areas -- far simpler (and maybe better) to reduce the big-buff to a less-big-buff.
</opinion>

Step two, once the no-singularity-power Warbirds are sufficiently competitive and non-overpowered, then the singularity-power Warbirds can be balanced against them.

Lastly, making the Romulan look-and-feel distinct and enjoyable should be an important priority which is, nevertheless, less important than making certain that the game works. The first two points of balancing are long-term survival-of-the-game issues; look and feel is distinctly secondary. That being said, what I have seen of the new artwork, uniforms, hairstyles, etc is all excellent.

TL;DR: Get the ships right first, by testing with a special testing-only core.

<comment> Don't know why the list showed up in that weird font.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 243
# 803
05-05-2013, 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainforfun View Post
As stated in this thread http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...91&postcount=6

the minus 10 power to each sububsystem is crippling the Warbirds in pvp. So plz increase the poerlvbl again. balance only matters much in pvp anyways so you don?t have to look at pve that much for terms of balance.
AS stated also, teh singularity powers are more or less useless, which matches with my impression of hte powers also.

And my personal experience as sci in a Warbird goes according to it. There is jsut not enough power to run the sci skills propperly without gimping the dmg output more then the skills impact would justify. (as far as you can speak of effective sci skills anyways).

I really would like to have a word with the devs that testing this stuff and i bet i am not the only one.

As i said before it seems to me that your testing methodes are not really giving useful results.

You guys should go and do some pvp matches with premades and pugs. Then you can see if changes work out or not.
Their methods for testing? Yes...they shouldn't pick people who don't even bother trying to understand a system before declaring it useless. Now, go back to your ship and learn to use your Singularity properly, and you suddenly won't feel underpowered anymore, mmkay?

Now that I'm in the T5 Mogai, I'm just LOVING charging a group, hitting Charged Particle Burst, and dropping a Gravity Well followed by a Singularity Jump. Weakens shields, pins in place (they can't escape both the GW and the Singularity Jump unless they're at the edge of the GW when it's fired, and as long as they're trapped, they can't shoot accurately even if they can spot me in the first place due to the perception debuff), and I can spin around and start spraying them with plasma torps. Not as powerful as my science ship's Murderball combo, but I have a lot more tac skills to play with, at least.

What you need to accept is that you can't simply just try to build your normal ship and just use your singularity powers whenever you feel like it; you have to build and play to take advantage of your singularity powers. You need to select BOff powers to complement them. As long as you dismiss them, you will never get anywhere in a Warbird. And that's YOUR fault, not the devs.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 535
# 804
05-05-2013, 03:06 PM
So i have an idea for a solution to the whole mess. 6 actually.

-Power Levels at 50: This puts the romulan ships straight on par with other ships as far as power levels go.
-Cloak: cooldown of 40 seconds, each boff or your toon with operative drops it by 5 seconds but you can't make it go below 25 seconds.
-Singularity powers stay as they are right now, offensive ones might get 5% reduction.
-All ships get 5-15% hull reduction depending on ship and tier. They already have drastically higher hulls than Klingon and even federation escort, battleships and birds of prey.

-Power levels at 45: Puts us slightly below, but consoles and set pieces will bring most of us back up
-Cloak: cooldown of 30 seconds, each boff or your toon with operative drops it by 5 seconds but you can't make it go below 15 seconds.
-Singularity powers stay as they are now.
-All ships get 5-10% hull reduction depending on ship and tier.

Power levels at 40:
Cloak: cooldown of 20 seconds, boffs/toon reduce it by percentage. no minimum.
-Singularity powers all get 10-20% boost in damage or effectiveness to make up loss of power. Amount boost is dependent on power. Not all should get 20% boost.
-Singularity adds power to a max of 7.5 to all 4 systems at max singularity. an extra +2.5 can be added by cores with certain modifiers for a max of +10 to one system and +7.5 to all others.
-All ships get 5% hull reduction.

Other options.

Add Fleet Singularity cores that add +5 to all power levels instead of just one. max singuarity would give you an additional +5 to one system. Giving an always on power bonus would make this console decrease all singularity powers by 10% but you'd have an always-on +5 to all power levels.

Cloak Cooldown = less stealth. An idea i have to balance the cloak. The faster your cooldown, meaning the more boffs you put on it or the lower it is by default the less stealth you have while in cloak. So if the cloak is at 20 seconds and you drop it to 10 seconds it's only 50% effective compared to the full 20 second cooldown. Not sure if this could even be coded in, but i feel that it's very fair.

No Powers Core: This would be either an elite fleet item or cstore item, something not cheap to encourage use of the new power system.
-Singularity core that disables the use of all singularity powers. You still gain power level and that still effects your cloak, but all singularity abilities are disabled and can't be used.
-In return, this gives you +5 to all powers with an additional +5 to all powers based on charge of core. +1 per charge. There for in order to still be on par with our federation and klingon players you need a full charge. That full charge will drastically reduce your stealth in cloak, but will decrease it's cooldown maybe 2.5% per charge so at max charge you get a 12.5% decrease in cooldown to the cloak. Additionally this core lowers your hull by 10%
-if lowering hull is not possible than by simply adding this option into the game, decrease all ships hulls by 10%


--------------------------

So those are a few ideas i have, and in my opinion all are fair and balanced though I'd love some criticism on them.

Personally my feelings are that the singularity powers are a very cool concept, but they fail miserably in application. None of the offensive ones are really worth using. The shield heal one is great and adds a great free healing ability for tac toons on a ship without many eng/sci boffs. The cloak is great but having too long of a cooldown defeats the whole purpose of it of being able to be activated in battle.

With power levels at 45 it's really not that bad, it's a minor loss and can easily be offset with consoles and abilities, we'll still be lower than fed/kdf by 5 points to offset the other abilities, but at least we won't be so drastically below that we can't at least be on the same level.

40 power levels is just too low. Unless the singularity powers are very powerful and really worth using, which they're not, then 40 is just too much of a hit, especially for those of us who are just going to use the healing power since the other ones are really not worth it and vastly underpowered to our weapons. and add in the -10 to weapons power and we are now vastly inferior to any FED or KDF player. PVP is essentially ruined for Romulans since they'll never keep their DPS up with FED or KDF thanks to the -10 power. And even PVE will be difficult since as most of us have seen the singularity powers are not that effective even at max power against most normal enemies meaning that even at level 50 say doing elite stfs they'll be pretty useless and we'll all just be using the healing power

As i just saw in another topic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerkorhil View Post
Romulans are getting penalties in exchange for benefits that aren't even benefits.
And that really sums it up. I don't want to just give Romulans +10 power without sacrificing anything, but lets be honest, these benefits are not that great right now, so either they need to get a lot better, which isn't really balanced, or you need to give us ways to be on par with Federation or Klingon characters.

To any dev that reads this, thank you for your time. I'm loving the expansion and everything that's coming with it and I've already bought my legacy pack and can't wait to play, but i do hope that you'll take my suggestions as well as those of hundreds of other people in this topic to heart and make the Romulans even more enjoyable for us.

So once again thanks for the game, thanks for Legacy of Romulus and hopefully thank you for your time in reading this.

ACCESS DENIED
U.S.S. Gipsy Danger | U.S.S. Gunstar | U.S.S. Oswin
R.R.W. Coronatus | R.R.W. Valar Morghulis
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 243
# 805
05-05-2013, 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milesvaugn View Post
I should mention that I am not part of the closed Beta, and haven't flown any of the ships or tried any of the mechanics discussed here. I have read the entire thread to this point, however, and have noticed a few issues that keep cropping up. I hope my input might, therefor, be useful.

  1. Balancing the fact that all of the new Romulan ships have Battle Cloak -- somewhere in here is the current 'Rom ships are too survivable' issue.
  2. Balancing the singularity core, tweaking the mechanics used, and accounting for the impact of the various singularity powers.
  3. Giving Romulans a distinct new flavor; a in-game experience which feel distinctly different and uniquely Romulan.

The first two issues might be best addressed testing them sequentially -- ie, not at the same time. Hyouki will most assuredly object, but for testing purposes only a singularity core with no powers and no power penalty needs to be made available. This would allow the devs to get metrics on "Warbirds with just Battle Cloaks" vs all other ships, and get the balance of those ships right.
Yer dang right I'm going to object! You don't need to test Battle Cloaks separately; we have plenty of experience with Klingon cloaking ships to know how changing the balance of shields, hull, seating, etc. will interact with the Battle Cloak. What we DON'T know is how effective the three singularity skills that can be used to cover a transition into cloak will do their job...and taking those out of the testing makes it kind of pointless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milesvaugn View Post
<opinion>
Don't reinvent the wheel here, and don't try to fix the problem by fixing stuff too far away from the source of the problem. If the Romulan BC is too much better than the KDF BC, then make the Rom BC less of an upgrade. If the new Traits give too big a boost to the cloak, reduce the effect of the trait. If a ship has too much shield or hull, reduce the shield and/or hull. By creating a big-buff problem in one spot and then trying to balance it by nerfing in other areas, an extremely difficult balancing act is created -- the problem spreads by affecting a dozen or more other unexpected areas. Each of those adjustments cascades over into yet more areas -- far simpler (and maybe better) to reduce the big-buff to a less-big-buff.
</opinion>
What this ends up becoming is, however, "don't do anything innovative; don't rock the boat; don't do anything that might interject new excitement into the game because we don't want to risk disturbing the stable-but-stale setup we have now". I agree that's a good attitude for regular updates (e.g. Season updates), but is ultimately fatal if an expansion can't be allowed to offer anything but "more of the same".

Quote:
Originally Posted by milesvaugn View Post
Step two, once the no-singularity-power Warbirds are sufficiently competitive and non-overpowered, then the singularity-power Warbirds can be balanced against them.
Again, the Singularity Powers are designed to work WITH the Battle Cloak; the power levels are designed to compensate for the combination of BOTH. If you balance the BC first, then adding the Singularity unbalances it again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milesvaugn View Post
Lastly, making the Romulan look-and-feel distinct and enjoyable should be an important priority which is, nevertheless, less important than making certain that the game works. The first two points of balancing are long-term survival-of-the-game issues; look and feel is distinctly secondary. That being said, what I have seen of the new artwork, uniforms, hairstyles, etc is all excellent.

TL;DR: Get the ships right first, by testing with a special testing-only core.

<comment> Don't know why the list showed up in that weird font.
The look and feel is indeed great...although for some reason I can't shake the feeling that my captain is running around in a Romulan dinner-jacket rather than a uniform...
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 243
# 806
05-05-2013, 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neok182 View Post
So i have an idea for a solution to the whole mess. 6 actually.

-Power Levels at 50: This puts the romulan ships straight on par with other ships as far as power levels go.
-Cloak: cooldown of 40 seconds, each boff or your toon with operative drops it by 5 seconds but you can't make it go below 25 seconds.
-Singularity powers stay as they are right now, offensive ones might get 5% reduction.
-All ships get 5-15% hull reduction depending on ship and tier. They already have drastically higher hulls than Klingon and even federation escort, battleships and birds of prey.

-Power levels at 45: Puts us slightly below, but consoles and set pieces will bring most of us back up
-Cloak: cooldown of 30 seconds, each boff or your toon with operative drops it by 5 seconds but you can't make it go below 15 seconds.
-Singularity powers stay as they are now.
-All ships get 5-10% hull reduction depending on ship and tier.

Power levels at 40:
Cloak: cooldown of 20 seconds, boffs/toon reduce it by percentage. no minimum.
-Singularity powers all get 10-20% boost in damage or effectiveness to make up loss of power. Amount boost is dependent on power. Not all should get 20% boost.
-Singularity adds power to a max of 7.5 to all 4 systems at max singularity. an extra +2.5 can be added by cores with certain modifiers for a max of +10 to one system and +7.5 to all others.
-All ships get 5% hull reduction.

Other options.

Add Fleet Singularity cores that add +5 to all power levels instead of just one. max singuarity would give you an additional +5 to one system. Giving an always on power bonus would make this console decrease all singularity powers by 10% but you'd have an always-on +5 to all power levels.

Cloak Cooldown = less stealth. An idea i have to balance the cloak. The faster your cooldown, meaning the more boffs you put on it or the lower it is by default the less stealth you have while in cloak. So if the cloak is at 20 seconds and you drop it to 10 seconds it's only 50% effective compared to the full 20 second cooldown. Not sure if this could even be coded in, but i feel that it's very fair.

No Powers Core: This would be either an elite fleet item or cstore item, something not cheap to encourage use of the new power system.
-Singularity core that disables the use of all singularity powers. You still gain power level and that still effects your cloak, but all singularity abilities are disabled and can't be used.
-In return, this gives you +5 to all powers with an additional +5 to all powers based on charge of core. +1 per charge. There for in order to still be on par with our federation and klingon players you need a full charge. That full charge will drastically reduce your stealth in cloak, but will decrease it's cooldown maybe 2.5% per charge so at max charge you get a 12.5% decrease in cooldown to the cloak. Additionally this core lowers your hull by 10%
-if lowering hull is not possible than by simply adding this option into the game, decrease all ships hulls by 10%


--------------------------

So those are a few ideas i have, and in my opinion all are fair and balanced though I'd love some criticism on them.

Personally my feelings are that the singularity powers are a very cool concept, but they fail miserably in application. None of the offensive ones are really worth using. The shield heal one is great and adds a great free healing ability for tac toons on a ship without many eng/sci boffs. The cloak is great but having too long of a cooldown defeats the whole purpose of it of being able to be activated in battle.

With power levels at 45 it's really not that bad, it's a minor loss and can easily be offset with consoles and abilities, we'll still be lower than fed/kdf by 5 points to offset the other abilities, but at least we won't be so drastically below that we can't at least be on the same level.

40 power levels is just too low. Unless the singularity powers are very powerful and really worth using, which they're not, then 40 is just too much of a hit, especially for those of us who are just going to use the healing power since the other ones are really not worth it and vastly underpowered to our weapons. and add in the -10 to weapons power and we are now vastly inferior to any FED or KDF player. PVP is essentially ruined for Romulans since they'll never keep their DPS up with FED or KDF thanks to the -10 power. And even PVE will be difficult since as most of us have seen the singularity powers are not that effective even at max power against most normal enemies meaning that even at level 50 say doing elite stfs they'll be pretty useless and we'll all just be using the healing power

As i just saw in another topic:



And that really sums it up. I don't want to just give Romulans +10 power without sacrificing anything, but lets be honest, these benefits are not that great right now, so either they need to get a lot better, which isn't really balanced, or you need to give us ways to be on par with Federation or Klingon characters.

To any dev that reads this, thank you for your time. I'm loving the expansion and everything that's coming with it and I've already bought my legacy pack and can't wait to play, but i do hope that you'll take my suggestions as well as those of hundreds of other people in this topic to heart and make the Romulans even more enjoyable for us.

So once again thanks for the game, thanks for Legacy of Romulus and hopefully thank you for your time in reading this.
SAID BEFORE, WILL PROBABLY SAY MANY, MANY MORE TIMES.

-10 power is too much of a drain...if you're playing your Warbird like a Federation or Klingon ship with an extra BOff (one that you don't like, either). If you are playing to take advantage of your Singularity powers and your cloak properly, then the power change isn't a problem. Quit trying to "fix" a system you haven't even fully understood yet.

Heck, we haven't even seen most of the Legacy consoles in action yet, and have no idea what their set bonuses will be. We haven't seen what DOffs will be introduced to enhance the Singularity system. In short, we ain't seen nothin' yet. Give it a chance, and see what you can do with what you're given.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 151
# 807
05-05-2013, 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
Their methods for testing? Yes...they shouldn't pick people who don't even bother trying to understand a system before declaring it useless. Now, go back to your ship and learn to use your Singularity properly, and you suddenly won't feel underpowered anymore, mmkay?

Now that I'm in the T5 Mogai, I'm just LOVING charging a group, hitting Charged Particle Burst, and dropping a Gravity Well followed by a Singularity Jump. Weakens shields, pins in place (they can't escape both the GW and the Singularity Jump unless they're at the edge of the GW when it's fired, and as long as they're trapped, they can't shoot accurately even if they can spot me in the first place due to the perception debuff), and I can spin around and start spraying them with plasma torps. Not as powerful as my science ship's Murderball combo, but I have a lot more tac skills to play with, at least.

What you need to accept is that you can't simply just try to build your normal ship and just use your singularity powers whenever you feel like it; you have to build and play to take advantage of your singularity powers. You need to select BOff powers to complement them. As long as you dismiss them, you will never get anywhere in a Warbird. And that's YOUR fault, not the devs.

I am not talking about pve issues. PvE content is so easy that you can faceroll to do it in most cases, except elite stfs. I can handle the standard pve pretty easy in my Warbird. Still some situational abilities are not worth a permanent -10 to every subsystems. They should bring the cloak back to 40 sec generall cd and raise the power lvls again to -5 for each subsystem.

It is more a matter of what you have to pay for the things you get, and atm the price is way to high.

I woud be happy if could get a singularity core without any of those abilities and only -5 Power to each subsystem.

And besides that i would still like to know how they are testing changes, just to understand on which base they made thier decissions. Especially since the last sci nerf.

And if you have to use doffs to compensate things you won`t have the slots open for other doffs, which give ships that don`t have to compensate an advantage over you again.

And i doubt that using cpb have a significant effect of the time you need to kill a bunch of npcs. Most of them die in one pass anyways, at least with an Escort/Warbird.
Reynolds / Thokal

U.S.S. Helios -Vesta Class / R.R.W. Dark Science - Dyson Surveillance Science Destroyer
U.S.S. Donut - Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
TheWiseGuys

Last edited by captainforfun; 05-05-2013 at 04:05 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 535
# 808
05-05-2013, 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
SAID BEFORE, WILL PROBABLY SAY MANY, MANY MORE TIMES.

-10 power is too much of a drain...if you're playing your Warbird like a Federation or Klingon ship with an extra BOff (one that you don't like, either). If you are playing to take advantage of your Singularity powers and your cloak properly, then the power change isn't a problem. Quit trying to "fix" a system you haven't even fully understood yet.

Heck, we haven't even seen most of the Legacy consoles in action yet, and have no idea what their set bonuses will be. We haven't seen what DOffs will be introduced to enhance the Singularity system. In short, we ain't seen nothin' yet. Give it a chance, and see what you can do with what you're given.
Don't think you actually read my post. I didn't write that whole thing out to complain, just to give my opinions on it. I have played as a romulan and it's been my experience that the singularity powers are not powerful enough to justify the power loss. at least not -10. And if you would of read my post you would of seen that i gave 6 different opinions and options on balancing the changes.

I plan on taking advantage of the singularity powers, but i also don't want to fly a crippled ship and right now the -10 does seem crippled to me. I even gave a solution for keeping the powers at -10 that if implemented i would be very happy with. as would many others, it would allow those who don't want to use the powers to have power levels still less than FED/KDF but at least close, and those of us who want to use the powers still get a nice bonus until we do.

I will gladly admit that your right, we haven't seen everything. But we've seen the basics, and the basics are troubling.

Again if you read you would of seen that i already bought a legacy pack. I also already bought weapons and consoles to outfit my romulan at level 50, so i'm very invested and i'll play no matter what. And there is nothing wrong to posting my opinions and possible balancing options.

Also, i have no idea what your talking about for the extra boff. warbirds have the same max boffs as any other ship as far as i can tell on tribble.

ACCESS DENIED
U.S.S. Gipsy Danger | U.S.S. Gunstar | U.S.S. Oswin
R.R.W. Coronatus | R.R.W. Valar Morghulis
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 32
# 809
05-05-2013, 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
Yer dang right I'm going to object!
Heh. Told ya.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
You don't need to test Battle Cloaks separately; we have plenty of experience with Klingon cloaking ships to know how changing the balance of shields, hull, seating, etc. will interact with the Battle Cloak.
Except we don't. The Romulan BC is better than the KDF BC in ways the devs won't tell us; it is numerically 'cloak-ier' which leads to better Defense, etc. And in your very next point, you object to using lessons learned about balancing the KDF cloak as 'just more of the same' and roundly condemn it. If the Rom BC is going to be different from the KDF BC, then you can't claim that it is the same as the KDF BC, and therefore 'needs no separate testing'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
What we DON'T know is how effective the three singularity skills that can be used to cover a transition into cloak will do their job...and taking those out of the testing makes it kind of pointless.
Not at all; I in no way advocated stopping testing at that point. The point was just to allow the issues with the Rom BC to be isolated for testing purposes only from the issues that may need to be addressed with the Singularity power & powers. And my point was also that smaller problems are easier to fix than big problems, and that it may be better to fix the actual cause of the problem rather than trying to create an endless series of work-arounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
What this ends up becoming is, however, "don't do anything innovative; don't rock the boat; don't do anything that might interject new excitement into the game because we don't want to risk disturbing the stable-but-stale setup we have now". I agree that's a good attitude for regular updates (e.g. Season updates), but is ultimately fatal if an expansion can't be allowed to offer anything but "more of the same".
This is exactly why the Rom BC needs to be tested on it's own; if you don't want to balance it in exactly the same way as the KDF BC, then it needs to be balanced in some new way. That new balance needs to be shaken out in testing, hopefully in an environment where the just-BC issues can be isolated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
Again, the Singularity Powers are designed to work WITH the Battle Cloak; the power levels are designed to compensate for the combination of BOTH. If you balance the BC first, then adding the Singularity unbalances it again.
Will Singularity powers + Rom BC Warbirds be better than just-Rom BC Warbirds? I don't really know, and neither do you. Such a test is utterly impossible at the moment. What I do know is that some folks who fly the Warbirds say the powers are too situational to be worth the penalties being paid for them. I would hope that the singularity powers do turn out to be an increase in power -- but that is exactly what the second round of testing would determine.

<opinion>
I must say that although you and some others do say that the powers are ok as is, or over-powered, you constantly invoke using combinations of BOff abilities alongside the singularity powers. And if a Romulan captain chooses not to slot those BOff powers? This sounds like a reduction in versatility to me; it seems like the Singularity powers have to be 'compensated for' by a particular, predictable build. Is your response to the 'rather have something other than Eject Warp Plasma in that slot' captains that they should go play some other faction? Perhaps the powers are not unblemished masterpieces yet; perhaps they need to be tested against opponents who are exactly-like-the-same-ship-except-with-no-powers.
<opinion>

And again, I didn't advocate stopping testing; the Powers+BC Warbirds would be competed against the just-BC Warbirds and the Powers+BC Warbirds would be tweaked until they were no longer over-powered. This is what testing is intended to accomplish, N'est-ce pas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
The look and feel is indeed great...although for some reason I can't shake the feeling that my captain is running around in a Romulan dinner-jacket rather than a uniform...
Heh -- I can see it now B'ond, J'mes B'ond
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 843
# 810
05-05-2013, 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neok182 View Post
*snip*
It's pretty much a non-starter to suggest nerfing the battle cloak in any way, shape, or form. If the battle cloak takes any longer than 20 seconds to cool, it might as well not even be there considering how fast paced combat is in this game. The romulans are known for their cloak and dagger and in and out of cloak tactics, romulans are all about cloak. Reducing the effectiveness of the cloak by up to 50 percent is ridiculous and also defeats the purpose of it. A D'deridex and Ha'apax are massive and slow, so they are already going to be easy enough to stay on top of once they battle cloak, let alone with a 50% less effective battle cloak, so all around, nerfing romulan battle cloak is a no go.

I agree that balancing the battle cloak first and then balancing the singularity powers makes sense, and, as I've said before, we've seen from the peghqu and the chimera that a battle cloak apparently only warrants an 8% drop in shield modifier, as these two ships are identical, except the peghqu has 8% lower shields and a battle cloak. So lets not reinvent the wheel on this one, give the romulan ships 8% lower shields or take it out of their hull, but lets not go crazy.

And let us keep in mind that the "increased surviveability" a battle cloak provides comes at a cost. With battle cloak, you might escape destruction, but you can't do damage while cloaked, you can't actively heal while cloaked, and shields don't regenerate while cloaked, which means you have to run off and decloak to heal and come back, or spend a great deal of time while cloaked to let your hull passively repair, but you won't get any shields back. And keep in mind that all this time, the enemy has a chance to actively heal, so the enemy's surviveability also goes up. Plus there's the very real chance that attempting to battle cloak is exactly the opening the enemy needs to blast you out of the sky.

That leaves balancing the singularity powers... which is admittedly difficult. They are essentially one power, because you can only use one of them when you get a charge, but they do provide the versatility of being able to choose which power you use. However, they are not reliably available. The singularity does not constantly charge, it only charges while in combat and loses charge out of combat and stops charging while cloaked. Which is why I don't see the point in high singularity charge reducing the effectiveness of your cloak... the two of them already rub each other the wrong way because the cloak stops singularity charging.

Unfortunately, I'm not even sure what to suggest for balancing this because it is so complicated a thing.
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