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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,587
So with both the changes to EPTX abilities and RCS consoles, will this not be quite as bad for cruisers? Still a pain, but maybe not quite as terrible?

The biggest problem really lies with the fact that regardless, EPTS 1 will have to be their choice to use. Especially 2 if they want the least amount of time between them.

But I remember a lot of folks were saying that cruisers wouldn't have the turn to keep the weakened shield facings away. Now with the RCS changes, they might have a better turn so it wouldn't be as large of a problem.



I think that while this is good, it isn't still going to help very much. That cruiser who can't shake the escort off his tail might be turning more, but that escort will also have usage of greater turn possibly, and so it might not really help. Plus the necessity of having to use EPTS 1 because of shared cooldowns doesn't help either.

On top of that, while turning will be less of an issue for cruisers in general, broadsiding in PvP really doesn't help a whole lot still.



One bit of good news for sure though: Single cannon builds will be more viable on more ships. (If you like using those that is).

What do you all think? Are these two changes together not that bad for cruisers, or will little to nothing really change, or maybe even be worse?

Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,724
# 2
04-23-2013, 02:51 PM
Think you have to separate the Star folks from the Assault folks in the discussion... not those cruisers specifically, but rather the type of play.


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer - U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,492
# 3
04-23-2013, 03:03 PM
Honestly, put that way it seems even worse. I like cruisers because (for me at least) they're a big slab that are less about reflexes and timing and more about pre-planning and execution. I don't like seat of my pants flying; its a space whale not a starfighter. The EPTS nerf is frustrating enough as it screws up the 4-EPTx cycle (unless they've changed the global cooldown since I read last) and single A2B builds. So now the 'balancing fix' is to further take away from the space whale feel and make cruisers about reflexes and timing too? Well crud.

PS
Yes I know I'm not a PVPer and have different priorities than y'all. Doesn't mean I don't pay attention to this forum. This stuff affects everyone.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 149
# 4
04-23-2013, 03:07 PM
I think the RCS change was primarily for PVE'ers who expect the Galaxy to turn like an escort.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
# 5
04-23-2013, 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dilbart View Post
I think the RCS change was primarily for PVE'ers who expect the Galaxy to turn like an escort.
Maybe not an escort, but perhaps better than a moon.

It still doesn't mean anything for feds really. Turn rate or not beams are still garbage. Single cannons aren't much better.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 57
# 6
04-23-2013, 08:34 PM
every cruiser over 4 weapons slots should have a - drain from beam array weapons. since they supposed to be beam boats, make them excel at being beam boats. then they could adjust beams if needed but frankly i think they would be fine if the power drain was not so all over the place and having to have multiple skills to keep power levels up.

the whole gap in empts for pve it means little or squat, npcs do not read your defense cycles while cloaked waiting to gank you with the alpha strike from hell in the gap of your buff cycle.

empts is a last choice in your emergency powers for pve, weapons aux all are more important until a npc like a raptor escort nukes the heck out of you on elite difficulty, then it is time to pop empts. or just skip the shield it if it on shared with weapons and go aux to structure, or some hull resist buff, and you will be able to tank just fine if not even a tad better with at lest the base of it lasting 30 seconds if not the resist buff.

if rcs makes cruisers turn better and well we can test that day one by grabbing my galaxy and some rcs consoles, and see if i can stand being in for more then 5 minutes the first time i have to do a 180 in stf. if they buff cruisers more than escorts that is a good thing for cruisers of they can turn get their firing arcs lined up and make getting more torps on some cruisers not not being stuck with beams simply because you cannot turn.

the whole pve vs pvp is so broken in game anyway. space pve is joke ground pve is hell, pvp is a joke with resists going out of control and passive regens out the wazoo, 20 min one on one duels ending when someones hand gets tired of spamming a space bar is not fun. the amount of spike vs pressure bring useless, beams being useless in pvp. and so on.


if cryptik were smart they would start at the base of the problem and halve all the resists in game for space, maybe even double them for ground. and start adjusting from there. cause the only other way to go is double the damage on weapons. hell triple it for beams then maybe beam boat and pressure dps would not be laugh worthy in pvp.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,535
# 7
04-23-2013, 08:49 PM
As much as the change might benefit a Cruiser, it looks like, from my experimentation, it could also help Engineering based Escorts just as much.. Especially if there is a Tac involved in that Escort.

The EPtX change is still a difficult one to judge. In one way it does give more reasons to not be self reliant and to want a healer with you. Helps make Escorts a little less tanky at least in the form of shield recovery and defense, but not touching their ability to speed tank.

The EptX change hurt all slow turning ships (Carriers and Cruisers remember) and the RCS change, while nice, won't make as much of a difference from what I can tell truthfully.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 8
04-23-2013, 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
As much as the change might benefit a Cruiser, it looks like, from my experimentation, it could also help Engineering based Escorts just as much.. Especially if there is a Tac involved in that Escort.

The EPtX change is still a difficult one to judge. In one way it does give more reasons to not be self reliant and to want a healer with you. Helps make Escorts a little less tanky at least in the form of shield recovery and defense, but not touching their ability to speed tank.

The EptX change hurt all slow turning ships (Carriers and Cruisers remember) and the RCS change, while nice, won't make as much of a difference from what I can tell truthfully.
From what I can tell, the RCS change is what has been asked for for ages. It is coupled with a change that cripples the very ship type that the RCS change is intended to help, with the net effect making the situation considerably worse.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 9
04-23-2013, 09:54 PM
I do no think that changing RCS from +1 to +2 for slow turners will make a miracle and they suddenly will be much better.

I think I will rely more on EpTE to get out of trouble. After all 80+ impulse speed is fun, especially when it does ruin someones alpha.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,951
# 10
04-23-2013, 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
I do no think that changing RCS from +1 to +2 for slow turners will make a miracle and they suddenly will be much better.

I think I will rely more on EpTE to get out of trouble. After all 80+ impulse speed is fun, especially when it does ruin someones alpha.
QFT

Yes the rcs change is fantastic.... as long as the people playing the game start using there brains a little more.

I have had cruiser players rage on me plenty over the last 3 years... and you know funny thing is in tells afterward in almost every case I would say why didn't you put all power to engines and get out of the way... they almost always say that don't work... then I say was your evasive manuvers on cool down ?... funny they always shut up after that.

I won't argue that cruisers have been able to turn enough the last 3 years... the slowest cruisers are in a very bad way right now... this change will help them a lot though... most cruisers can slot 2 RCS units... and throw the Tach lobi uni console in one of there sci slots... and have more then enough turn to survive almost any alpha. If people start piloting there fat boats instead of just cruising in em.

Well played Dalnar... and for the record you have always been one of the harder cruiser/heavy sci boat players to alpha... cause your smart enough to not sit there and get hammered.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
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