Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,761
# 91
04-29-2013, 12:19 PM
if they changes the turn consoles to give +3.5 instead of +35% for example, ships with a 15 turn rate would break even, less then that would benefit more then now, and more then that lose a bit of turn. ships with more then a 15 base already turn far to well, and the disadvantages for using narrow arc weapons on them are non existent
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,296
# 92
04-29-2013, 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frtoaster View Post
Starship Impulse Thrusters (SIT), engine power (EP), and engine [Turn] modifiers (TM) all use the base turn rate (BTR) minus 3. On Holodeck, the turn bonus you get should be

(BTR - 3) * (0.38 * SIT / 99 + EP / 100 + TM).
Using this as a baseline
Quote:
Turnate Fleet Tor'Kaht
Holodeck
Engine power 67
Engine advanced fleet hyper impulse [turn]x3 [spd]
Impulse truster skill 9
rcs console +40% turnrate
tachykinetic console +22.9% turnrate
Turnrate at normal full impulse 23.9
flight speed 27.42
...I got 23.43 output on my spreadsheet, so I'll assume it's pretty correct. Doubling the base TR to 20 (bugship) gives me a whopping 49.92 turn rate with no other changes. Thats WAY to much maneuverability bonus for a single RCS console and a TK console, so play with an idea- inverse scaling of base BTR since this is where the formula derives all the meat of the bonus from. Lets say we recalculate BTR this way: (BTR-3)+ABS(LOG((A2/20),2)), and calculate from that.


(BTR-3)+ABS(LOG((calculated BTR/20),2)) * (0.38 * SIT / 99 + EP / 100 + TM)

Gives us 49.9 for the bugship, and 24.45 for the fleet Torkhat, also giving us a favored lower end of the scale. Could even go ABS(LOG((calculated BTR/23),2)) to further favor the low end. Better yet, go BTR-2 gettin the Torkhat 25.67, bug is 51.14, but the pool old exploration cruiser would be almost 16.
KBF Lord MalaK
Awoken Dead

You're gonna upgrade my Chel Grett for FREE but charge me $30 to upgrade my Kamarag ?

Last edited by lordmalak1; 04-29-2013 at 02:16 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,696
# 93
04-30-2013, 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
It seems the changes on tribble specifically removed the -3 from BTR but only for RCS consoles (TM).

The next tribble update should see the same being applied to SIT.


How would the formula you've posted be adjusted for that?
I did some testing after the latest patch. Now, on Tribble, SIT is multiplied by BTR instead of BTR - 3. Although it wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, Evasive Maneuvers was also changed to use BTR instead of BTR - 3. But Evasive Maneuvers now no longer scales with engine power as it does on Holodeck.

I also think the value of 0.38 that I posted before may not be exactly right. The correct value is between 0.38 and 0.39.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 94
04-30-2013, 12:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frtoaster View Post
I did some testing after the latest patch. Now, on Tribble, SIT is multiplied by BTR instead of BTR - 3. Although it wasn't mentioned in the patch notes, Evasive Maneuvers was also changed to use BTR instead of BTR - 3. But Evasive Maneuvers now no longer scales with engine power as it does on Holodeck.

I also think the value of 0.38 that I posted before may not be exactly right. The correct value is between 0.38 and 0.39.
I couldn't patch tribble. What changed with Evasive meneuvers ?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,696
# 95
04-30-2013, 06:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
I couldn't patch tribble. What changed with Evasive meneuvers ?
Two things:

1. On Holodeck, the Evasive Maneuvers bonus is multiplied by BTR - 3. On Tribble, it is multiplied by BTR.

2. On Holodeck, Evasive Maneuvers scales with engine power. On Tribble, Evasive Maneuvers seems to give a 400% bonus regardless of engine power.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 96
04-30-2013, 08:00 AM
The latest change to impulse trusters works better than I would expect. My G-X moved from 12,4 to 14,1. While on holodeck with same setup I'm at 11,2. So can't be unhappy about this change. With EptE + AtD the ship is pretty "nimble". Well at least compared to the whale it is on holodeck. The battle cloak turn bonus would make it perfect for ambushes, but oh well can't have everything.

Last edited by dalnar83; 04-30-2013 at 08:02 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,696
# 97
04-30-2013, 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frtoaster View Post
Two things:

1. On Holodeck, the Evasive Maneuvers bonus is multiplied by BTR - 3. On Tribble, it is multiplied by BTR.

2. On Holodeck, Evasive Maneuvers scales with engine power. On Tribble, Evasive Maneuvers seems to give a 400% bonus regardless of engine power.
I spoke too soon. On one character, Evasive Maneuvers gives 400% turn bonus; on another, it gives 499% turn bonus. I'm not sure what the difference is. Engine power doesn't seem to affect the bonus. Perhaps, it depends on ship class: one character is in an assault cruiser and the other is in a patrol escort.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,696
# 98
04-30-2013, 09:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
The latest change to impulse trusters works better than I would expect. My G-X moved from 12,4 to 14,1. While on holodeck with same setup I'm at 11,2. So can't be unhappy about this change. With EptE + AtD the ship is pretty "nimble". Well at least compared to the whale it is on holodeck. The battle cloak turn bonus would make it perfect for ambushes, but oh well can't have everything.
Did you notice that activating EPtE and AtD in different orders results in different turn rates? It seems that EPtE also increases the percentage bonus of AtD. At first, I thought it was the extra engine power, but changing the engine power setting has no effect on AtD on Tribble.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 99
04-30-2013, 09:54 AM
Not really, I reach 23,5 either way. I'm using APD1 and EptE3 for testing.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,696
# 100
05-01-2013, 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frtoaster View Post
Did you notice that activating EPtE and AtD in different orders results in different turn rates? It seems that EPtE also increases the percentage bonus of AtD. At first, I thought it was the extra engine power, but changing the engine power setting has no effect on AtD on Tribble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Not really, I reach 23,5 either way. I'm using APD1 and EptE3 for testing.
Never mind, I figured it out. I forgot that I was testing the engineering trait "EPS Manifold Efficiency". Activating EPtE increases my aux power by 10, so of course, AtD would receive a boost.
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