Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,078
# 1 What I Don't Get about STO PvP
05-03-2013, 08:01 PM
We all know the 'standard team oriented builds'. The healers, the setup/debuffers, the bursters. Blah, boring stale meta is what that all sounds like to me anyway.

Where are the 'team builds'. To make a comparison in League of Legends you always have the same typical 'roles' that go into each lane. However the team focus varies greatly from high mobility (map alts, heavy gank jungle/mid etc) to AoE Teamfighters (everyone great at AoE).

Yet I see none of that here. An easy one would be a heavy disruption team packing SS /w Doff on every ship combined with solid burst and other things (PSW) but many would likely scream haxs.

What about an ignore shield team? Embassy Plasma consoles 3+ per ship (one proc all proc) + DEM + FaW + EWP + Breen Cluster torps with circle jerk extend shields to keep team alive and the enemy has to run out of HEs sooner or latter. I know unlikely to work but you get the general idea.

Is there anything similar in the Premade scene? Team setups beyond the standard exploit and try to splat? Or does 'hax' get screamed and it gets nerfed or frowned upon for people to do such things as seems to be the track record in my experience.

I seek enlightenment.
STO's F2P is basically an inferior experience for the masses at no cost being subsidized by a handful of whales seeking whatever it is that motivates them to spend hundreds if not thousands on a game.
Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 447
# 2
05-03-2013, 08:59 PM
Actually you raise some interesting points. My fleet has been trying to get into the premade arena, but some sort of unified, interesting builds might be just the gimmick to get more people involved.

Plus, those kinds of teams would be really interesting to fight against.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 3
05-03-2013, 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
We all know the 'standard team oriented builds'. The healers, the setup/debuffers, the bursters. Blah, boring stale meta is what that all sounds like to me anyway.

Where are the 'team builds'. To make a comparison in League of Legends you always have the same typical 'roles' that go into each lane. However the team focus varies greatly from high mobility (map alts, heavy gank jungle/mid etc) to AoE Teamfighters (everyone great at AoE).

Yet I see none of that here. An easy one would be a heavy disruption team packing SS /w Doff on every ship combined with solid burst and other things (PSW) but many would likely scream haxs.

What about an ignore shield team? Embassy Plasma consoles 3+ per ship (one proc all proc) + DEM + FaW + EWP + Breen Cluster torps with circle jerk extend shields to keep team alive and the enemy has to run out of HEs sooner or latter. I know unlikely to work but you get the general idea.

Is there anything similar in the Premade scene? Team setups beyond the standard exploit and try to splat? Or does 'hax' get screamed and it gets nerfed or frowned upon for people to do such things as seems to be the track record in my experience.

I seek enlightenment.
The problem you are seeking is that there are very little PvP teams, and the ones that are out there probably want to fly whatever they think is best.

But there have been teams specialized in just 1 aspect, thinkabout a full polaron drain team with energy siphon, leech, siphon pods, aceton assimilators.

etcetera.


Your picture of the 'standard' perfect team is not entirely correct though, in the fleet i'm in we are constantly trying out new ways to kill and stay alive, because that is the essence of an arena match right, there are more ways then the standard one.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,078
# 4
05-03-2013, 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkfader1988 View Post
The problem you are seeking is that there are very little PvP teams, and the ones that are out there probably want to fly whatever they think is best.

But there have been teams specialized in just 1 aspect, thinkabout a full polaron drain team with energy siphon, leech, siphon pods, aceton assimilators.

etcetera.
And that highlights my point. If I'm not mistaken many called hax on the drain, resist got buffed, drain now junk (or is it?). Or am I missing something?
STO's F2P is basically an inferior experience for the masses at no cost being subsidized by a handful of whales seeking whatever it is that motivates them to spend hundreds if not thousands on a game.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 5
05-03-2013, 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
And that highlights my point. If I'm not mistaken many called hax on the drain, resist got buffed, drain now junk (or is it?). Or am I missing something?
Yes, you're missing practical experience to see the difference between things that are valid, creative, new tactics vs. things that cleary OP and do not require very much skill to completely neuter teams. (Like Temporal Inversion Field)


For the most part any team relying too much on a single gimmick becomes susceptible to other teams exploiting the weakness of that gimmick (or teams that are just better skilled coming to the fight with the same gimmick, with better execution).

There are some "gimmicks" which are clearly overpowered, and will almost guarantee wins against anything but a completely superior (skill or coordination wise) team.


There is a lot more detail in the strat & tactics of team comp, usually its not always talked about on the forums because a lot of it is generally already understood, some of it is just too much detail with regards to gear and boff swaps mid match, and other times its a little bit of keeping whatever build that might be giving you an edge a little bit close to the chest.

While most of us (PvPers in general) share quite a lot of what we are doing, you still don't necessarily want to give away every last piece of the puzzle.

Smart opponents can figure most of it out anyway.



Otherwise, yeah as MT said, unfortunately there aren't that many PvP teams.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 05-03-2013 at 10:30 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 6
05-04-2013, 01:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
gear and boff swaps mid match
[pet_peeve]One thing I'd love to see go the way of the dodo. What BOff's/Gear/DOff's you have equipped when you enter an Arena or a C&H is what you have. No using an inventory full of gear to swap to that allows a quick and easy counter/adaptation to whatever you meet. What's equipped when the queue kicks off is what you get.

It'd also have the effect of somewhat lessening the penalty applied to new players who haven't spent years amassing wealth (or don't have the disposable income to burn on Zen>Dil exchanges) required to build a large suite of options in the form of Rep/Fleet gear and weapons, not to mention those wonderful-but-ridiculously-expensive and fast becoming impossible to find DOff's... like the mighty Attack Pattern Cooldown DOff.[/pet_peeve]
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,066
# 7
05-04-2013, 02:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegrimcorsair View Post
[pet_peeve]One thing I'd love to see go the way of the dodo. What BOff's/Gear/DOff's you have equipped when you enter an Arena or a C&H is what you have. No using an inventory full of gear to swap to that allows a quick and easy counter/adaptation to whatever you meet. What's equipped when the queue kicks off is what you get.

It'd also have the effect of somewhat lessening the penalty applied to new players who haven't spent years amassing wealth (or don't have the disposable income to burn on Zen>Dil exchanges) required to build a large suite of options in the form of Rep/Fleet gear and weapons, not to mention those wonderful-but-ridiculously-expensive and fast becoming impossible to find DOff's... like the mighty Attack Pattern Cooldown DOff.[/pet_peeve]
Certain gear, ahem - I think should work more in an "EVE" fashion - so to speak. Weapons, that is. Not the class, but the type. If a player has DBBs, DHCs, whatever slotted - they should be able to change the type of DBB or DHC. However, they shouldn't be able to change a DBB for a DHC, etc, etc, etc.

Things like Engines, Deflectors, and stuff like that - well, personally I think that should require a visit to a starbase to accomplish. Course, more starbases would need to be added. The same would apply to consoles.

No, I don't think that's a very popular suggestion...but it's one I would make all the same.

As for BOFFs/DOFFs, I'm not sure why switching "crew" would be an issue.
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
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