Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,080
# 41
04-26-2013, 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxvitor View Post
Every series had it's good and bad, it's not really a matter of different, but if you are trying to market something to fans of a franchise you are expected to meet those fan's expectations, when you make a prequel you have to be very careful to make it fit with the history of the franchise, Enterprise failed at that miserably. There are so many things they could have done with Enterprise that would have made for a good story that would have had nothing to do with the Borg, Ferenghi or time traveling alien space nazis. They could have made a ship that looked more primitive than the TOS Enterprise rather than a knock off of a design 200 years more advanced, they could have shown more about the founding races of the Federation rather than concentrating on alien races that would never be heard of again. So much potential, wasted. That is what really killed the series and that only served to accelerate fan burnout.
Its not like the TOS dealt with Space Nazis. The Borg storyline was just a continuation from FC, no biggie. The Ferengi, you got me on that one.

However, the design of the NX fits. If Season Five was able to made, the new refitted NX would've been fine. Except for the Ferengi, the whole series fits as a prequel. I really don't understand on what fans would want in terms of style that would have fit pre-TOS. I mean, what 40s style or 50s? People are all of up in arms that the Daedalus wasn't used, but even the modelmakers who built it, said the model was not meant to be seen up close and it was meant to be generic. I have seen the real model at Star Trek The Experience, it sucked.

From what I get, Enterprise just didn't fit people's expectations of what pre-TOS looked like. Besides, Enterprise only got four seasons, and that fourth one was good. The first two were obivous that Berman was trying to rekindle the spirit of TNG, it failed because it was an old concept. while the third season was Berman trying to do dark Trek, but failed because it was the opposite of what Trek was or at least what fans thought Trek was.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
# 42
04-26-2013, 05:10 AM
As an old-time Spock/Diane Duane, fan, I was pretty annoyed by how the show treated Vulcans. Some of that was on the macro scale, as when I guess we weren't supposed to want T'Pol to throttle Archer during the pilot? (I will give them that Archer convincingly had pre-Kirk attitudes about Vulcans, it just turned out to be something unpleasant to watch on screen)

The spectacle of the Vulcan High Command as a bunch of bigoted mindmeldphobes who just needed a Space Honky like Archer to come in and tell them how they _should_ be living. (Surak's katra goes in Archer's brain? WTF? WTF?)

And yeah, of course the show isn't bound to novel canon, but when the transition is from "This is an ancient and fascinating society that has endured for centuries" to "This is a bunch of weird aliens who need to be saved from themselves by humans", it's still annoying.

(And then there are the larger issues of the Bragaverse desire to write unemotional alien women in catsuits getting their freak on - jeez, poor T'Pol)
Career Officer
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,729
# 43
04-26-2013, 06:14 AM
i liked enterprise but yes, i was a bit underwhelmed the first two seasons. i understood what berman was trying but the way he went about it left some room for improvement, enough to park a galaxy class ship and that ridiculous sized saucer head!

as posted before me and agreed that there could of been more exploration at home to understand the federation and its politics instead of an outsiders view of the whole thing, sort ofa cross between ds9 politics and that awful soap crap you find on tv without it focusing too much on the individuals, but rather the founding of the federation at large.

i mean there was a huge amount of room to find out what the federation was really about, the style and tastes, the politics involved, if there is a central federation senate or something like that, the various embassies for foreign dignitaries and such. just pure trek nerd first in each episode. but we could also play it from other angles as well and learn about other cultures, example one of the main characters goes to vulcan on an officer exchange programme on a 4 parter, that focused on the job there, again looking at the styles and taste of that culture. or exploring more of a starship with a tour. of course trek isnt trek without some exploration of new worlds and such without the mystery behind it, just to explore for the sake of it, focurse you cant expect diplomacy and exploration not to have any fighting.

it all could of worked up to season 5 where more of the borg and romulans before the earth-romulan war started and after the remote controlled aenar drone incident. we could of learned a great deal about romulan life, remans and such.

then when the federation was formed, the challenges of the newly created mutinational race, how they are resolved while investigating a threat that wants to undo it on the side to keep it interesting (romulans ofcourse )...

again, so much could of been done.
Joined STO late 2010. Bought starter pack LoR & LTS 2013.
Proud owner of a Targ pup to a federation character.
T6 Miranda FTW! Hope to see Miranda Class made a T6 hero ship.

Last edited by mirrorchaos; 04-26-2013 at 06:16 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,463
# 44
04-26-2013, 06:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycoticvulcan View Post
Not sure what Klingon War you're referring to, but the Romulans were a big part of Season 4. Two major story arcs directly involved them, and it was leading up to the outbreak of open war.
They also mentioned that the Romulan-Earth war (and the events leading to it) would have been the subject of ENT S5, hadn't they cancelled it...
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 777
# 45
04-26-2013, 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraghul2000 View Post
They also mentioned that the Romulan-Earth war (and the events leading to it) would have been the subject of ENT S5, hadn't they cancelled it...
It should have been the main subject of the show from season 1, but no ... they just had to invent this stupid temporal cold war, covered in an abundance of filler episodes which did not progress the story at all. Apparently no one told them that modern TV series work these days more like overlong movies and not like a pile of loosely connected mini episodes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 109
# 46
04-26-2013, 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirrorchaos View Post
i liked enterprise but yes, i was a bit underwhelmed the first two seasons. i understood what berman was trying but the way he went about it left some room for improvement, enough to park a galaxy class ship and that ridiculous sized saucer head!
Whew! Glad I'm not the only one who thinks the Galaxy-class looks just a little ridiculous.

Now, I liked SOME of the things they tried to do with the Vulcans, but again it was a case of interesting ideas mired in lousy execution. The Vulcans are emotional messes one and all, despite claiming every other line that they have no emotions at all. BULL. Possibly the thing I love most about the reboot is Sarek and Spock talking about Vulcans and emotions, with Sarek flat-out admitting that "Emotions run deep within our race. More deeply than in humans, in some ways." Anyone who knows anything about Vulcans knows that they turned to pure logic as a way to control their emotions to prevent themselves from turning their homeworld into a radioactive asteroid belt. That emotional control was sorely lacking in almost every single character, but T'Pol. . . oh my god, that poor abused Vulcan. First she gets mindraped and picks up a mental STD that makes it harder for her to control her emotions, then she gets addicted to toxic rocks that break down her ability to control her emotions. . . what, the writers were afraid of trying to write a Vulcan as an interesting character without giving her emotional turmoil every thirty seconds? Watch some ToS episodes for how Spock was handled, or read some of the better novels. . . heck, hire Diane Duane and Diane Carey to write your Vulcans (just don't let them drop in their Mary Sues.) I really have to credit Jolene Blalock here for taking those sorry, sorry plot developments and playing them SO beautifully. Her acting skills are about the only thing that makes her character watchable, even enjoyable, especially when they switched to those God-awful brightly colored catsuits. The brown-grey one she wore in season one at least seemed like something a Vulcan might wear, but the blue and pink and fuschia ones they put her in later made her look like she should be on the runway at some avante-garde sci-fi themed fetish fashion show. . . or the subject of a rather unusual Easter egg hunt.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,303
# 47
04-26-2013, 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by khan5000 View Post
I dont think people were war dearly...just DS9 had a very sanitized version of war. Half way through their run Battlestar Galactica comes out and shows people you can have an adult drama in space with war and not be cliche.
I don't know - the episode 'The Siege of AR-558' was fairly 'full on' in that respect.

STAR TREK BATTLES - HIGH DPS PLAYERS NEED NOT APPY
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
# 48
04-26-2013, 11:35 AM
I will give them credit with Enterprise - they avoided Voyager's primary mistake, which was not to take risks. But the risks they did take were generally not very good.

I do feel for the art people - making something look plausibly more primitive than TOS but at the same time not look terrible in Hi-Def would probably have been v. difficult. Still, that is their job! And it was the suits who evidently overruled the attempt at a Daedalusprise and instead gave us the NX-01.

But yeah, Archer's Dances With Vulcans bit, bleah.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,080
# 49
04-26-2013, 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmonaut12345 View Post
I will give them credit with Enterprise - they avoided Voyager's primary mistake, which was not to take risks. But the risks they did take were generally not very good.

I do feel for the art people - making something look plausibly more primitive than TOS but at the same time not look terrible in Hi-Def would probably have been v. difficult. Still, that is their job! And it was the suits who evidently overruled the attempt at a Daedalusprise and instead gave us the NX-01.

But yeah, Archer's Dances With Vulcans bit, bleah.
Before, Drex Files was taken down, Drexler went into the design process of the NX-01. They wanted a design derivative of the Daedalus, but Berman wanted a ship with the basic elements of Star Trek in order to be visually identified with Star Trek. You didn't follow through with Archer's dance. At first, the Enterprise Vulcans were very different but in the Fourth Season, they had a good arc that helped explained it (Not a planned explanation, but a good way evolve modern Vulcans)

About the Galaxy, if you read the various fanzines in the 80s when TNG and the new-Enterprise was first announced, you think the new Enterprise from Trek 09 outcry was bad.

Last edited by eldarion79; 04-26-2013 at 02:45 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 109
# 50
04-26-2013, 02:47 PM
The only problem I have with the Reboot Enterprise is that the nacelles seem too big in comparison with the rest of the ship. . . especially the secondary hull (kinda similar to my complaint about the Galaxy. . . the saucer is almost the same size as the rest of the bloody ship!) Other than that, I think she's a damn fine looking piece of engineering.
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