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Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 25
# 11
04-27-2013, 03:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by khayuung View Post
I'd totally agree, all Separation and Pet consoles should get upgrades in the Dil-store and the Fleet Store.

The only problem becomes, how the hell do you stop someone from buying the Elite MVAM console when he's only got the FAM instead of the C-store MVAM? Give them a discount? And are we happy that people without the c-store ship can buy the console and FAM without ever going into the c-store?
I would have thought you would need the console in the first place to make the purchase/upgrade. Perhaps it's traded in like the Jem set when upgrading from XI to XII.

FAM? I assume you mean Fleet Advanced Escort?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,462
# 12
04-27-2013, 10:10 AM
I don't personally see any problem with selling "upgrades" for console or separation pets. Sounds cool. Ships that have such features need to remain attractive if they are to sell. Though in general I would argue that these pets need better cooldown rates and availability before they need better gear, especially the ones that are actually meant to be fighting (MVAE aspects, Aquarius/Ho'sus).
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 426
# 13
04-27-2013, 01:15 PM
I would like to see a hypothetical "future SCE" reputation which allows, as a reputation project, the turn-in of certain items for better ones.

It would, for example, be a T3 Reputation project to turn in your MVAM console for an "Advanced" MVAM console, and a T5 reputation project to turn in the Advanced console for an "Elite" MVAM console.

I think we know that this kind of system is technically possible, and it would probably be a good way to mediate how expensive it would be.

The issue then would be how you make them better. Without knowing the exact stats of the pets, you might do something like increasing their weapons from Mk X to Mk XII, increasing their total subsystem energy, and allowing them to use certain powers, depending on the pet.

For example, the Beta Section (while under AI control) might be the following:

Standard:
2x Mk X phaser bank
2x Mk X photon torpedo
40 standard subsystem power

Advanced:
3x Mk XI phaser bank
2x Mk XII photon torpedo
60 standard subsystem power
APB: 1

Elite:
4x Mk XII phaser bank
2x Mk XII photon torpedo
60 standard subsystem power, 80 weapons power
APB: 1
BO: 1

Obviously just made-up stats because I have no idea what the actual stats are. I can understand the desire not to make console-based separation pets as powerful as a full slate of hangars (i.e., four frigates), which makes sense. But separation pets, I think, should generally be at least as good as one equivalent level hangar given that you trade a console and its opportunity cost to get them.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,128
# 14
04-27-2013, 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by khayuung View Post
I'd totally agree, all Separation and Pet consoles should get upgrades in the Dil-store and the Fleet Store.

The only problem becomes, how the hell do you stop someone from buying the Elite MVAM console when he's only got the FAM instead of the C-store MVAM? Give them a discount? And are we happy that people without the c-store ship can buy the console and FAM without ever going into the c-store?

lock it out like they did with the andorian weapons and the spiral wave disruptors you can only buy the upgraded version if you have the C-store ship
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 671
# 15
04-27-2013, 03:48 PM
Separation and console pets have always been grades under hangar pets, even before Elites. A few glaring problems, you can't tell when its dead (Aquarius and Tal'Kyr issue mostly) and the 3 minute recharge time to use them. Even frigates can be launched once a minute, and the CD starts right after hangar pets are launched.

Elite pets have really raised the bar tho, it's almost useless IMO to use separation/console pets in PvP or Elite STFs. The Tal'Kyr needs a huge buff, its needs to be made a heal only pet (get rid of its damn turret plz). Maybe add console upgrades, so we can get stronger versions of the MVAM pieces, Tal'kyr, etc. I do love the D'kyr personally, but atm the Vesta is leagues ahead.
I'll stop kicking that horse when the bugs fixed. Until then as a paying consumer, I will voice my opinion.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 752
# 16
04-27-2013, 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by konaldo View Post
Saucer separation was originally conceived in the TOS era as a life boat mechanism, not a combat option. However it evolved during the TNG thru Voyager era into a combat option so at this point they should be better than a shuttle in a fight, not worse.
fix: carrier type controls for pets (would allow some control but never a total fix it seems in this game)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 424
# 17
04-27-2013, 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icybrilliance View Post
Well MVAE separation pets were always pretty useless. The benefit was the increased turn albeit by sacrificing hull and shield.

With power creep from a steady release of newer and better hanger pets they became even more worthless as combat pets. Mine would generally die in the first battle they were involved in from warp core breach explosions.

I recently put my MVAM console in the bank. I simply had too many good consoles to slot for the MVAM to remain equipped. So I would welcome an improved version.
Hmm, they could probably turn it into a revenue stream, release an UR Seperation console [that can only be purchased if you own the appropriate ship/old console] specific to each of the ships for a Chunk of Dilithium.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,329
# 18
04-27-2013, 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by telbasta7386 View Post
Same issue with the Vulcan D'kyr's Tal'kyr support craft. It becomes disabled within a few seconds whenever I use it in crystalline catastrophe from the random attacks the crystalline entity does, or the fire at will used by the tholian ships. Worse, it only seems to heal your own ship rather than helping heal allies - even if they're right next to you - and you cant control it at all.


IMO, seperation and support craft like that (saucers, multi-vector sections, the tal'kyr support craft, and the aquarius destroyer and its kdf equivalent) need to have similar attack evasion/defense to fighters, and some kind of aoe defense - and they should all be given the basic carrier commands that carriers have access to.
One nice thing for the Tal'Kyr would be that it NOT shoot anything but High Yield Torps and Mines... I have suggested this before because the last thing it needs to do is take Aggro.


The OP's suggestion is an interesting one and perhaps worthy. I am not sure if Cryptic will ever do this but honestly most ship based pets are absolutely pathetic. The Aquarius is MAYBE as good as 2 Normal Peregrines if you are lucky when even one bay will launch 6 of them in total...

The HoH'SuS for the KDF cannot hold a candle to even one of the Frigates for its side let alone 2 of ANY of those fighters.

The MVAE pieces are... Well... Absolutely worthless at this point. The only thing that console does is make you move better and blow up faster now... That is so sad because the MVAE practically got me INTERESTED in STO and for a time it was an Awesome ship but after the power creep and the unparalleled nerfbat beatdown that Science Abilities got the ship is a joke.

I do not think either Saucer really needs to be improved any. The reason you drop it is to move faster not to have it help you in combat. I always argued that the Saucer should actually just leave considering that it was supposed to take your civilian crew out of harm's way while the Stardrive section threw down.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 154
# 19
04-27-2013, 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by khayuung View Post
No I'd rather not give anyone the ability to kill 1000 crew members on a whim.
ReallY? When I used my seperate console and saucer returns without a single scratch on it, the crew are all dead anyway.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 82
# 20
04-28-2013, 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsyblade View Post
Separation and console pets have always been grades under hangar pets, even before Elites. A few glaring problems, you can't tell when its dead (Aquarius and Tal'Kyr issue mostly) and the 3 minute recharge time to use them. Even frigates can be launched once a minute, and the CD starts right after hangar pets are launched.

Elite pets have really raised the bar tho, it's almost useless IMO to use separation/console pets in PvP or Elite STFs. The Tal'Kyr needs a huge buff, its needs to be made a heal only pet (get rid of its damn turret plz). Maybe add console upgrades, so we can get stronger versions of the MVAM pieces, Tal'kyr, etc. I do love the D'kyr personally, but atm the Vesta is leagues ahead.
They are, but considering that you are paying a console slot for them, and they are very specific/on certain ships, I think they should essentially be as good as a hangar. With so many consoles these days, doing that is paying a heavy price for something that currently is useless. The Aquarius/Ho'sus/MVAM/Tal'kyr at the very least should behave like Frigates from carriers. Especially in terms of how their cooldowns work. (Well I dunno about MVAM, but it does need a lower cd than Saucer Sep as that is a core feature of that ship)
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