Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 260
So for those of you avid Tribble testers who are not constantly running around on your new Rom (alas, I don't have a closed beta invite, so I can't do that myself), I wanted to start an unofficial feedback thread for the Nukara rep system, since the devs apparently haven't created an official thread yet. Admittedly, I am only halfway to Tier 2 rep, but I figured it would be nice to start putting some feedback up for the devs.

My feedback so far:
1. I can still get the reward pack in addition to Nukara marks for the Nukara ground missions; I am assuming that is not meant to happen as the drops would now come from the Nukara rep store.
2. The conversion/registering of our old Crystalline Shell sets works well and gives almost enough marks to make it to T2 on the rep system.
3. Some of the new devices/consoles/weapons look pretty cool. Tholian Web Breaker, Tholian Web Mines, and some cool new weapons. I do have one question for the devs/other players: what differences if any are there between the Lobi store crystalline sword and the crystalline swords (Mk X, XI, and XII) you get from the rep system? If there aren't any differences, do you plan on removing the crystalline sword from the Lobi Store and either allowing players to convert their Lobi Store ones into marks or to get a Mk XI or XII version of the sword?
4. I don't like the amount of marks per mission rewards. See next post for the math I did.
"That hurts worse than the uniform." - Dr. McCoy on the Vulcan salute
"On Vulcan, the teddy bears are alive. And they have six-inch fangs." - Spock on sehlats
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 260
# 2
04-27-2013, 12:05 PM
So as stated above, I don't think the number of marks awarded is adequate. I formed this opinion in comparison to Omega Mark availability (warning: my number may be a bit off it's been a while since I did many of these). The math (assuming no bonus events, no optionals, and no area wides):

Omega Marks:

2 easy missions x 5 marks x 3 areas = 30 marks
2 medium missions x 7 marks x 3 areas = 42 marks
1 hard mission x 10 marks x 4 areas = 40 marks
Sub-Total = 112 marks

3 normal space x 20 marks = 60 marks
3 normal ground x 20 marks = 60 marks
3 elite space x 60 marks = 180 marks
3 elite ground x 60 marks = 180 marks
Sub-total = 480 marks

Borg Red Alerts
1 Red Alert x 10 marks x 11 sectors with red alerts (i think) = 110 marks
Sub-total = 110 marks

Total Marks Available (in a hypothetical day of grinding) = 112+480+110 = 702 marks

Nukara Marks (as is with guessing on the space missions):

Nukara Ground:
2 easy missions x 5 marks x 2 areas = 20 marks
2 medium missions x 10 marks x 2 areas = 40 marks
1 hard mission x 15 marks x 2 areas = 30 marks
Sub-total = 90 marks

Space Group Missions (assuming equivalent marks to normal STF):
1 Azure Nebula Recue x 30 marks (60?) = 30 marks (60 marks?)
1 The Vault: Ensnared x 30 marks (60?) = 30 marks (60 marks?)
1 Tholain Red Alert x 10 marks (same as borg) = 10 marks
Sub-total = 70 marks (130 marks?)

Total number of Nukara marks available = 90+70 (130?) = 160 marks (220 marks?)

This is the same problem that we had with Romulan marks being too scarce. People would have 1,000s of Omega marks and like 200 Romulan marks. In fact, this is worse than the Romulan mark situation because there is no Epohh farming to spit out 400 (200 in Q winter event) marks an epohh. Either more Tholian missions need to be added, or the marks need to be substantially increased. The marks on Nukara are similar to Defera invasion (in fact a little more) but that doesn't account for the fact that Nukara has 2 areas while Defera has 3 with an additional Hard difficulty area (the zone wides would probably be the same number of marks and same number of missions).
"That hurts worse than the uniform." - Dr. McCoy on the Vulcan salute
"On Vulcan, the teddy bears are alive. And they have six-inch fangs." - Spock on sehlats
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 535
# 3
04-27-2013, 12:21 PM
Been waiting for someone to do the math and i feared it would be this bad.

From what i've seen of the rewards though, the console and refracting tetryon weapons don't seem to great. I'll still be grinding to tier 5 for the powers, but would be nice if it's a lot easier to get the marks to actually afford the stuff in it.

Like you said, Romulan rep had the same problem but thanks to the winter event and farming you could make tons of marks. i had over 2000 left after the winter event, but i've easily made probably 30k omega marks since the rep started.

Considering these are the only ways to make the marks, i would just double everything, or at least x1.5

U.S.S. Gipsy Danger | U.S.S. Gunstar | U.S.S. Oswin
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,029
# 4
04-27-2013, 12:36 PM
FYI, there is an older thread on the Tholian reputation system:
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 260
# 5
04-27-2013, 01:35 PM
Thanks for the heads up, I looked back about 8-9 pages in the discussion feedback to see if there was anything and I did a search. I'm guessing I didn't see the thread because it's under "Tholian Reputation" and I was searching for "Nukara Reputation". Oh well, until we get an official one, there will probably be more. Plus I'm hoping this one can serve for the more recent addition of the marks being available to test.
"That hurts worse than the uniform." - Dr. McCoy on the Vulcan salute
"On Vulcan, the teddy bears are alive. And they have six-inch fangs." - Spock on sehlats
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,817
# 6
04-27-2013, 03:33 PM
At the very least, I feel that they should leave the boxes in Nukara. That'd go a long way to making it less painful to do this rep.

Why are all of STO's EPs named 'Steve'?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 434
# 7
04-27-2013, 04:30 PM
Hmm, I have copied a char over with a few sets of tholian ground gear, but not seeing anything to convert them to marks, is there something special you have to do? Or am I just dense.

[ edit / add ]
This is the 'regular' Crystalline Shell set, should I just assume the folks who are getting it to work are using the Mk 12?

Last edited by sudoku7; 04-27-2013 at 05:14 PM.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,223
# 8
04-27-2013, 07:40 PM
It's not so much the math per mission I see as the issue. It's marks and Dil vs. expected minutes played, to me.

I don't want to spend 4 hours a day playing this game. Or any other game. Ever.

This is why I liked the Omega rep just fine. Sign on, play an Elite STF (or two), go away. I get my marks, I get Dilithium, my time is well spent. I never felt like I wasn't being well rewarded for doing so. Even the non-elite ones are fine enough, really because they also pay Dil.

I never bothered with the borg ground mission zone. Never saw any need. Could be the lost good zone in the game for all I know.

I tolerated running the Tau Dewa Sector Patrol Daily for 60 marks a day. But that was it, tolerated. I barely looked at the ground section of New Romulus, to be honest. You want to not pay me Dilithium? Fine. Don't expect me to ever treat it as an equal use of my time, because it isn't.

I've always liked the Nukara missions themselves when I've tried them, but they've always felt like something I do because I want to not because I'm being rewarded well for doing it. There are far more efficient uses of my time really. The current reward structure (which is admittedly a WIP)... certainly doesn't change that opinion. The rewards vs. time just doesn't work.

The point being I think rewards vs. realistic expected minutes played needs to be better standardized across different rep factions. In theory they should all be similar if the rewards are to be of expected similar quality. Note For Those Who Need It: This does not mean nerf the one that is working right to make it more like the other two that aren't.

"We are smart." - Grebnedlog

Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom

Last edited by tsurutafan01; 04-27-2013 at 07:53 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 9
04-27-2013, 08:59 PM
I really feel insulted with them offering 5, 10, 15 Tholian marks on Nukara. And the space event marks aren't anywhere better than the Romulan Marks in those events.

Omega Marks, doing one Elite STF you was good for a long time before needing to do another.

Romulan Marks, the Christmas Event Epohhs and the Epohh Tagging on Mol'Rihan really make it less painful.

But there is nothing compromable for Tholian marks, except those who have some of the old EVA suit parts, which I don't think you will see more than 1 complete suit on a person's character.

Not only that, the Devs underestimate how much people dislike Nukara and the Space Events (Vault and Azure Nebula). And of course it's a MAJOR deterant in making new Romulan characters since players have to start from scratch and having to do all 3 Reputation systems, the DOFF system, and grind tedious amounts of Dilithium to buy anything at endgame.

Really, I don't think the Dev Team gave any thought about the grind that people are tired of. So they really should go back to the drawing board.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,945
# 10
04-28-2013, 02:51 AM
Up to 100 Omega marks for an eSTF can't compete with 5 marks from missions on Nukara. Or even 30 from space event.
Tholians space event require as much time, even more, and award the third of it.
Granted, they are easy compared to eSTF, but ISE is not that hard, and it still reward up to 100marks. Not counting the dil, the purple loot (for cash) and the neuroprocessor you can trade for more dil.

I think that's why Cryptic did not increase the marks income for Tholian, or even Romulan. They don't have elite content. The rewards are about the same for the same kind of content, adventure missions, normal STF. However, the player would want to do elite for more marks, but we simply can't.

So there is 2 solutions left : add elite vault... with the same amount of reward than eSTF, or increase marks gain, to nerf them later if they introduce eSTF for those.

No matter how good the items are, I don't feel like grinding Eppohs + eSTF + nukara missions for my Romulan. That would mean hours every day.

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