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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,107
The current EPtX system on Tribble is greatly detrimental to cruisers (ironically the most engineering heavy, thus the best suited to use EPtX powers).

Although having the Boff slots to run several different EPtX abilities (euh, honestly, there's not much else at ensign eng, for example), they can't anymore unless they put up with a 33% hole in EPtS. Unfortunate, given that cruisers are supposed to be the tanks in this game, a role hardly achieved without a proper EPtS protection.

Meanwhile, half non-cruiser ships can continue using twice EPtS with only a relatively minor nuisance of about 11% downtime (yes, they'll be better protected than most cruisers); and the other half will switch from using 2 EPtX powers with Damage control engineer doffs to the aforementioned 2xEPtS setup (sure, losing an EPtX ability with full uptime, but gaining up to 3 doff slots - as many as good an uptime you had with the lost EPtX ability).

I know there is this - very informative - thread out there: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=619891 (I'd recommend reading at least the first 2 pages).

But I still wrote this, more as a desperate plea for the devs to open their eyes and a short summary than as another forgettable post of a player unhappy with changes. And it is so desperate simply because I haven't seen a single dev mention about the latest change for weeks now. If it's because those devs are hard at work at a redesign of the current situation, then disregard this thread. If not, than please, acknowledge this (to be widespread, at May 21st) problem.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix: Bring in the Allegiance class
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia: Add Tier 6 staple KDF ship types: Carrier and Bird of prey.
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Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
# 2
04-27-2013, 09:08 PM
I am a cruiser pilot, and I approve of this message

Seriously hawk, or anyone, if this is part of a big change, then fine, but at least clue us in on what it is. I currently have 4 cruisers parked waiting to see if they are going to be made into museums after the 21st. I certainly will not be spending any money on more cruisers if this goes to holodeck. Unless you give us some idea of the rest of the changes, if any.

The current state of EPtX on tribble is bad, and you should feel bad.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 3
04-27-2013, 09:30 PM
I concur with this.

The sheer amount of dev silence makes me extremely concerned. This change was originally instituted so as to make EPtX powers "more interesting." The problem was, according to the original design, they were practically intended to be chained - some forum users have actually looked up the old posts, and chaining is critical to a ship that is intended to thrive in pressure damage and endurance, not spikes. This has not changed.

This ultimately seems to force cruisers into one of two roles - complete healboat, or Aux2Batt, with the latter having people afraid of another nerf. It is already said that STO is Escorts Online - I don't think you guys really want that to actually happen, especially if you're relying on the strength of the license. Most of the "hero" ships were in fact cruisers, and their potential to be viable combatants is important for drawing in people who want to captain their own little version of the Enterprise. While I'm not advocating that they be invincible or anything of the sort, this is cutting out a massive amount of that viability right there. It also seriously damages the viability of many playstyles, leaving both new players and veterans alike lacking for options. Generally escort builds just plain aren't even close to cruisers - escorts are more like fighters, and many enjoy the option of playstyles that are not simply fighters.

Even if this change is made, ignoring PvP opinions entirely, you should be aware it significantly impacts PvE as well. For people who chose cruisers because they wanted something more like a battleship, with survivability and the ability to do something more than maybe throw out heals (and even THAT is arguably heavily impaired by these changes), this causes quite a few problems to say the least.

In case the strategy here is to retain deathly silence in the hopes that we will happily wander over to the Zen store and buy some escorts after chucking our cruisers in the trash, then it should be known that the reason there is less forum activity about this is NOT because people are grumbling and deciding to just live with it - it's because we feel as though until LoR hits Holodeck there is nothing more we can do while we silently stew and try to figure out if there's any way around this.

If the changes are to be accompanied by other changes that somehow mitigate this, that allow cruisers to retain their diversity without losing their actual viability, then I ask - what are these changes? Why have we not seen them? Can we see them? Are they going to be implemented before LoR hits? If not, when? We can't just wait six months with crippled ships. It should be telling that almost everyone I've spoken with seems to think that the next changes to be made will be even WORSE, and probably hem cruisers deeper into the narrowly-defined roles they're being pushed into by the EPtX changes.

I must ask - do you REALLY want all cruiser builds to look like the Enterprise-C from Temporal Ambassador? Just about everyone derides the ship in terms of actual viability, which is sad, but accurate. It looks like that's the way things are going, though.

In short, I do not know if this plea will fall on deaf ears, and I am not making noise simply to irritate the devs. In fact, I can ignore a lot of tweaking - but not this. I must ask you if you really, truly think these changes are going to help with diversity in builds - or just end up scrapping a lot of good ones and making players considerably more frustrated, especially those who want to have a ship that does more than heal and get shot. A lot of us like our battleships, and we would rather they not end up reduced to cheerleaders on nacelles.

Last edited by red01999; 04-27-2013 at 09:37 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 635
# 4
04-27-2013, 09:51 PM
I don't even like cruisers, and I can plainly see how an inability to continuously cycle EPtX screws cruisers over more than any other ship.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 535
# 5
04-27-2013, 10:10 PM
I don't fly a single cruiser but i've been reading up on this, and can only concur. This change would drastically damage cruiser gameplay, and cruisers are the LAST thing that needs to be hurt in this game.

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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 21
# 6
04-28-2013, 12:29 AM
Dear Devs,

I've been playing this game since launch and I really love this game as many others who post here. I normally do not post in forums but I also feel compelled to add my voice to these changes to EPtoX powers.

I really do not think the current changes as it stands now is a good change for the very reasons my collegues have pointed out. I've been perfecting cruiser builds since launch and have been adapting to all the changes since launch. Ever since this change was announced in the forums, I've been testing it out in tribble, trying to find ways to compensate for the changes, and I'm coming to a conclusion that these changes seriously limits the types of effective builds available for cruisers. I love the variety of cruiser builds available currently in holodeck, but with the changes in tribble, many of these builds will become a lot more ineffective. In alot of builds, chaining of two different types of Emergency Powers is a crucial part of the build. Cruisers are one of the only ship types that are able to chain two emergency powers....it is one of the few advantages Cruisers have in this game. As you can see there are many topics on the forums how cruisers need a buff.....please do not neuter the cruiser even further. Currently, I have builds that are able to compete with the mighty escorts...and these builds heavily rely on chaining two different emergency powers.

As my collegues here in the forums have pointed out, there are not many Ensign level Engineer powers besides EPtoX powers and Engineering team. Right now in Tribble, many of my ensign level slots are wasted.

If this goes live on holodeck on May 21st, I do not want the public outcry of these changes to overshadow how awesome the Legacy of Romulus is going to be. I do care about the health of this game and this community. Please do not release this change on May 21st. If changes needs to be made for the sake of balance, it may be more prudent to do it later as part of a larger overhaul. Not just one change at a time, but as a massive retooling as a whole. For example, you cannot just change defense, without adjusting the offense as well...at the same time. I feel change will be better accepted by the community if balance is approached this way, rather than piecemeal changes.

Thank you for listening and I appreciate your hard work.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,289
# 7
04-28-2013, 12:32 AM
I agree, please don't go foward with the changes to EPTX, its hard enough to play cruisers as it is now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 103
# 8
04-28-2013, 12:54 AM
oh boy...I been playing cruisers since launch as well...and with these changes...for the first time I'm honestly feeling less motivated to play this game. I really hope I didn't feel this way...

I've been testing it out on tribble as well...not good man...It's game over man...its game over.

Seriously, cruisers need a buff...they don't need to be gimped further. In pve, I can compete with the escorts as well. In pvp, I mind as well be shooting spitballs....all flash...a pretty light show...

So Tactical cruisers may go the way of the dodo bird with this change...and we know how many Kirk-wannabes are out there. Cruiser will be the galactic cheerleaders...as the escorts do all the heavy-lifting. I guess I can go and play an escort...but flying an escort doesn't feel like Trek to me as flying a cruiser. I love flying big lumbering ships. Maybe I should trying ramming as my weapons don't do much in pvp.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,416
# 9
04-28-2013, 12:59 AM
Bit off Topic, but i wish the Devs get around in fixing these CTD issues that STO's been having since Season 7 launched. And 99% of the time, it involves KDF characters.

Guess they aren't reading the bug reports.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,992
# 10
04-28-2013, 01:04 AM
There's countless threads (okay, maybe if I weren't half-asleep I could go count them) on the matter. The devs are well aware of the mass of concerns being levied by those in the playerbase unhappy with what's underway...

...so I'm not going to post about that.

However, there are rumors (/cough) that the changes to EPtX are but merely part of a larger plan addressing Engineering BOFFs. Without repeating that rumor, I was wondering if there was any official comment in regard to that. If so, it could do wonders to alleviate at least part of the issue being raised...

...enjoy your weekend, guys - know that you're working it down to the bones to get this out for everybody.

Willard the Rat, Klingon Science Officer
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