Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 782
# 11
04-29-2013, 10:23 AM
Having just rewatched it, it's the best trek movie, I'll agree on the actors, they made the film what it is. Khan is one of the greatest trek villains of the last 40 years easily. The combat scenes were full of tension and easily the best of any trek movie.

Excellent story and well written characters.


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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 321
# 12
04-29-2013, 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jestersage View Post
what make it different from JJTrek?
The fact that Kirk was a seasoned veteran officer who had earned the respect of his comrades and the right to lead them, perhaps?

That's the big problem I have with JJ Trek. Kirk does nothing to justify sitting in that chair. Had they chased after Nero straight from Vulcan with his nebulous, undefined plan to "get aboard" the Narada and "take it over" like he insisted, they'd have all been killed, since at this point he had no way of getting aboard (no transwarp beaming). If he had even suggested that they somehow try to ambush the Narada and survive combat with it long enough to destroy its drilling platform, it would've been better.

The movie tried to shove down our throats that this guy should be the captain just because he's James T. Kirk. But the Prime Universe Kirk earned his captaincy, JJ's Kirk just goaded Spock into attacking him and then relied on Scotty & Chekov to get him aboard the Narada, and Spock to steal the red matter and disable Nero's weapon.

I appreciate you can't replicate three TV seasons of Kirk's captaincy in one movie, but you could've tried a bit harder. Even on his debut TV Kirk looks like he belongs in that chair more because he makes ultimately makes the decision that Mitchell, his best friend, is too dangerous and has to be stranded outside the galatic barrier. Also he's not an arrogant little git.

They can repair this by having him learn some humility in the new one, but they could've portrayed him better in the first place.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,355
# 13
04-29-2013, 11:23 AM
Personally speaking, I've never bought Khan as the Uber Villain. Yes, it was a good tie back to the series, but Kirk faced greater foes in that time (Garth of Izar, for example) Kruge and Chang were both Heavy Hitters who were plausible, a legitimate threat, and a challenge to Kirk and co's wits, yet they were both established in a single movie, not needing to rely on past backstory to be considered worthy opponents.

As a film, I think WoK stands above anything JJ could come out with in terms of direction and pacing, quality of writing, and effects which 'fit in', rather than grabbing the attention to pull it away from other glaring flaws...
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,261
# 14
04-29-2013, 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldarion79 View Post
I say poorly said, but Trek fans has been saying **** Series is not Trek since TOS went off the air.

Fun facts about TWOK, Roddenberry considered it to be not canon due to disagreements with the director. TWOK was a soft reboot of Trek (The director wanted to showcase younger actors-Saavik was the only one that made it and a new ship-eventually the Excelsior) and it ignored the events of TMP. The movie had Spock die at the beginning due to a script leak that said Spock died at the end, similar to what we have now.

About CGI and Special Effects, in its time, TWOK had a lot and included some of the first CGI to appear in film (Genesis sequence). Like George Lucas has said about Star Wars, if they had today's technology, they would've have used it. .
Also, don't forget the writer (Harve Bennet) was not Trek fan and had never seen an episode before being hired. He actually sat down and watched (or half-watched) all of the original episodes to find the best villain to bring back to the big screen.

But, hey, it worked.


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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,705
# 15
04-29-2013, 01:13 PM
Calm yourselves JJ Haters.

JJ TRek is THE Star Trek now and all will have to come to acknowledge that.

There will never be another Next Gen movie and most of the TOS cast are gone sadly.

JJ is what's keeping Star Trek alive and whether you like his movies or not you have to appreciate the influx of cash and new recruits.

Sadly many of their hopes are dashed when they come here expecting to be welcomed and encounter all the Next Gen Harpies screeching about how bad JJ is.

Next Gen is OVER, get over it.

Embrace the new TOS.
If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,355
# 16
04-29-2013, 02:57 PM
JJ Trek is the Star Trek FOR now...

There will never be another Next Gen movie and most of the TOS cast are gone sadly.
But there will be something else in the future...

JJ is what's keeping Star Trek alive and whether you like his movies or not you have to appreciate the influx of cash and new recruits.

No one has to appreciate anything at all. No one has to watch the new movies. Trek exists in whatever form a fan chooses it to take. Some find it in re-watching the old episodes and movies, some find it in reading the novels, some find it in the game, some find it in dressingup like their favorite character... None are exclusive, and none are wrong...


Next Gen is OVER, get over it. Embrace the new TOS.
Telling people what to think/feel/get over tends to not go down well... JJTrek admitted that it was alternate timeline, so it does not erase/retcon or otherwise undermine the canon of the other series. All the original works are still just as valid and accessible, so there's no reason why people have to suddenly say "It's over, this is what we have now..." Perfectly possible to just carry on as before For the most part, I see people disliking JJTrek due to issues with the production and production crew, not necessarily the movie itself... As I said the other day, I'm quite happy to sit down and watch JJTrek if I'm in the mood, but that doesn't mean I rate JJ. I'll be watching Into Darkness once it hits Sky, I'm just not holding out any hopes of being impressed by it. I'm sure it'll be a perfectly acceptable way of passing an evening, but I don't see myself seeing it as anything other than a shabby remake of WoK by someone who couldn't come up with a better idea beyond tweaking a few details and saying "Alternate Timeline..." anytime anyone criticizes it ala Lucy Lawless and the "Wizard did it..." rationale in the Simpsons, and adding enough lens-flare to try and distract from that...

Live Long and Prosper...

Last edited by marcusdkane; 04-29-2013 at 03:02 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,280
# 17
04-29-2013, 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusdkane View Post
No one has to appreciate anything at all. No one has to watch the new movies. Trek exists in whatever form a fan chooses it to take. Some find it in re-watching the old episodes and movies, some find it in reading the novels, some find it in the game, some find it in dressingup like their favorite character... None are exclusive, and none are wrong...
True. But that's a two-way street. JJ Abrams 2009 Star Trek film is Star Trek. It says it in the title. It has two Spocks in it. It has Captain Kirk in it. It has the Enterprise in it. Absolutely the people who derive pleasure from Star Trek just by reading the novels are getting what they want out of the Star Trek experience. But, the folks who aggressively post "Star Trek 2009 is NOT Star Trek" are wrong. It is. And will always be a part of the Star Trek experience. Just like the Animated Series was. Or Enterprise. Or really anything else a group of fans may not "like" but still carries the trademark on it.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,355
# 18
04-29-2013, 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
True. But that's a two-way street. JJ Abrams 2009 Star Trek film is Star Trek. It says it in the title. It has two Spocks in it. It has Captain Kirk in it. It has the Enterprise in it. Absolutely the people who derive pleasure from Star Trek just by reading the novels are getting what they want out of the Star Trek experience. But, the folks who aggressively post "Star Trek 2009 is NOT Star Trek" are wrong. It is. And will always be a part of the Star Trek experience. Just like the Animated Series was. Or Enterprise. Or really anything else a group of fans may not "like" but still carries the trademark on it.
Yeah, this is the thing... It says that it's alternate reality, to my way of thinking, that allows the two timelines to co-exist without impacting each other. From a production point of view, it allows for a lot of freedom. Personally, I've no issue with that, I just find it sad that with all that freedom and options available, JJ isn't capable of actually utilizing that creative potential
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 121
# 19
04-29-2013, 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thlaylierah View Post
Next Gen is OVER, get over it.

Embrace the new TOS.
I find this terribly ironic, given for how many years I had to listen to, "TOS is over, get over it. Embrace TNG (and its spinoffs), they're Trek now whether you like it or not."
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Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 347
# 20
04-29-2013, 09:23 PM
I for one divide the Trek universe into 3 universes: Original, Mirror Universe and Alternate Universe. JJTrek is Alternate Universe; I may not like parts of it, but it this generation's Star Trek.

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