Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
So given the revert of the EPtX abilities on tribble, I did some screwing around with RCS, beams, dual beams, and cannons. Mostly it just started out as a way to see how High I could get my turn rate, but I stumbled onto something, methinks.

I had a post a while back on helping me win a bet, which was help my fed eng in a cruiser beat my friend's tac in a patrol escort, which I eventually gave up on. I was running some damage numbers against him yesterday and, well, I accidentally killed him in a test using dual beams.

Surprised, I decided to go all out with it. In the fleet Excelsior, I ran

Tac team (with doffs), BO2, APO1
EPtS1, EPtW2, EPtS3, Aux2SIF3
EPtW1, ET1
ET1
HE1, TSS2
3 RCS, and a Neut armor console.

Just because I had them handy, I had 4 Disruptor DBB, 4 Disruptor Turrets, and a cutting beam running the borg set.

Mind you this was just a screw around test, not optimal by any means.

With a nearly 30 turn rate, I found keeping Dual beams on target very doable. I accidentally killed him very quickly in a test of "just sit there and see if this even hurts". Whereas before using just single beams, he hardly even had to hit EPtS to keep up. So we had a full out 1v1, and it was actually quite entertaining. It ended in a draw again, but not for the reasons before being EPtS3 nullifying his damage, and single beams doing net 0 damage, but rather a draw because we were both skilled enough to keep ourselves alive by running away if need be, and well, Tour the Universe was up so Funny thing is, he actually did have to run away because I was hurting him badly enough where he couldn?t just "gun turret" in a 1v1.

Now granted I realize a 1v1 test means little, and that the build isn?t optimized, but given the new buffs to EPtX abilities, the new engineering traits, and the new turn rates, I might not feel like a sucker for having spent all this time on an engineer anymore.

The new traits especially I really like. My power levels are so high that hitting EPS will put me at 125 across the board. Nadion with dual beams is freakin lethal. And the leadership nerf doesn't make me immortal anymore, which is fine.

I guess what I am saying is that dual beams on a cruiser running EPtW as an eng can actually hurt, as 90 degree arc is now doable with the modifications to RCS and SIT. I would actually have a hard time now deciding on taking my tac or my eng. Sure, APA is great, but now with GDF not available for an alpha, and the engies ability to have so much bloody power, I think the eng might actually be viable. I know for the first time in a long time, I was having fun with my eng, in a cruiser, in a fight.

Just passing it along.

Oh, and I won my bet!

Last edited by cha0s1428; 05-06-2013 at 12:16 AM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,740
# 2
05-06-2013, 02:44 AM
Still not much of a vindication. EPS is countered by Efficient Saurians and the much more forgiving cannon drain. NI can be gotten through Marion Frances Dulmur. Of all the innates, I like RSF the most, while MW is quite useless. I would still jump at the chance for a career switch to tactical.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 3
05-06-2013, 10:37 AM
A DBB Excel has always been viable, the problem is that a Tactical still does it better. Even a Sci is a better fit because you have an AoE damage buff and you can pack a subnuke since you're canting your nose around for the BO anyway.

The silly DEM DOffs pretty much put the nail in the coffin for the hybrid Engie I'm afraid. They're probably one of the dumbest additions to the game by far.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,500
# 4
05-06-2013, 11:08 AM
Have you given any thought to an Aux2batt build with EWP and DEM3? I believe you're taking the wrong approach by trying to 1 shot him with BO2.

The Aux2batt will reduce all your cool downs with 3 purple tech doffs. EWP can catch him and nullify his maneuverability, at the very least keep him off your aft. This will also burn his hull. EPTW + DEM + Nadion is a very effective broadside then transphasic cluster torp will finish him off. Also a plus that torp doesn't need a valuable boff slot to work. You can rotate EWP and Theta radiation console for an extra plasma trap.

I recommend 2 cluster torps 1 fore and 1 aft with 6 beam arrays. Since you're doing a 1vs1 BFAW should work nicely.

Aux2batt will increase power to engines, shields and weapons as well as give you a very nice maneuverability boost. The 3 doffs will reduce your CDs.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,187
# 5
05-06-2013, 11:37 AM
Engi is more viable. Beams get better as power levels stay up. If you can max weapon power settings, use the new EPS, use the new trait that grants bump to power, etc, you can really get the weapon power cranking. 8 beams are viable. 4 DBB is viable. At that point you are looking at some real hurt. EPtW adds damage boost and if you can stack it on a APB you are going to start bloodying some noses.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
# 6
05-06-2013, 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by edalgo View Post
Have you given any thought to an Aux2batt build with EWP and DEM3? I believe you're taking the wrong approach by trying to 1 shot him with BO2.

The Aux2batt will reduce all your cool downs with 3 purple tech doffs. EWP can catch him and nullify his maneuverability, at the very least keep him off your aft. This will also burn his hull. EPTW + DEM + Nadion is a very effective broadside then transphasic cluster torp will finish him off. Also a plus that torp doesn't need a valuable boff slot to work. You can rotate EWP and Theta radiation console for an extra plasma trap.

I recommend 2 cluster torps 1 fore and 1 aft with 6 beam arrays. Since you're doing a 1vs1 BFAW should work nicely.

Aux2batt will increase power to engines, shields and weapons as well as give you a very nice maneuverability boost. The 3 doffs will reduce your CDs.
I wasn't trying to one shot him with BO2. I was just using what I had available. Had a few boff candidates, so I made what I could. I am not asking for advice on how to kill him, or what build to run. Just pointing out that the new changes on tribble are making it possible for an Eng to put some decent damage downrange.

I am not a fan of Aux2batt though.

I had also tried 6 and 8 single beams. Barely a scratch was made.

Dual beams were never that viable before on the Excelsior. Decent, but with all the bonuses now, and the speed increase, its actually quite potent.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,187
# 7
05-06-2013, 12:28 PM
Eh, the present limit on DBB effectiveness with cruisers is turn rate more than anything. If you use your EPtX on EPtE for turn rate, you wont be able to dump it into EPtW for damage.

My KDF tact battlecruiser runs with full weapon power skill spec and can run 3x DBB full-time already--I could use 4 but the power drops too much with BFaW, so better off not doing it. That's very effective setup right now, but the only reason its viable is because the Kamarag has a stock turn-rate of 10.5 (I think).

Going from 6 BA to 8 BA is a 33% increase in base DPS. That's a lot.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
# 8
05-06-2013, 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
Eh, the present limit on DBB effectiveness with cruisers is turn rate more than anything. If you use your EPtX on EPtE for turn rate, you wont be able to dump it into EPtW for damage.

My KDF tact battlecruiser runs with full weapon power skill spec and can run 3x DBB full-time already--I could use 4 but the power drops too much with BFaW, so better off not doing it. That's very effective setup right now, but the only reason its viable is because the Kamarag has a stock turn-rate of 10.5 (I think).

Going from 6 BA to 8 BA is a 33% increase in base DPS. That's a lot.
Exactly, which is why I said on tribble the changes to turn rate, RCS tachy, etc. have made a huge difference.

true on going from 6 to 8, but its not enough. BA don't have any punch, and the power drain on 8 is way to much. Using 4 DBB, I was getting the potency of 8 BAs while only getting the power drain of 4. The burst from DBBs vs BAs is much more noticeable, and now it is going to be doable once the tribble changes go live.

Last edited by cha0s1428; 05-06-2013 at 02:17 PM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,740
# 9
05-07-2013, 01:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
Going from 6 BA to 8 BA is a 33% increase in base DPS. That's a lot.
I wouldn't be surprised if that resulted in a DPS drop, from both a lack of kinetic potential and inability to control weapons power.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,560
# 10
05-07-2013, 01:41 AM
I already found that an Excelsior with 3 Dual beam banks and a romulan hyper plasma torpedo can be a bit more dangerous damage wise in an stf, so with the RCS changes it may just be fast enough for PVP.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
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