Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 183
# 1 T'Varo OP, Dhelan Mogai UP?
05-03-2013, 01:13 AM
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DISCLAIMER:

I'm not in the closed beta, and to be honest, I haven't played STO in a while. So I'll be the first to accept that I can be totally off base on this (and if I am, feel free to correct me / show me where I'm wrong / what I'm missing). That said, just from looking at the stats of the Romulan ships, it seems to me that there are serious balance issues. I'll restrict my comments to the first three top-tier ships, since they are most raiders / escorts which is what I know and fly (this is not to say there may not be issues with the larger cruiser type ships, I just don't know enough to comments).

I'm basing my comments on ship-to-ship comparison between the Romulan ships and either Klingon or Fed ships. Now, of course I understand that ships ought to be unique and not direct copy pastes. However, it seems to me that in a direct comparison there ought to be advantages *AND* disadvantages to each ship. If one ship is better in every single way than another (same tier) ship, this tells me there's an imbalance.

I also realize that Romulan ships have unique singularity powers. However, *all* top tier ships have access to these, and these are supposed to be balanced by the reduced power levels (and probably other "nerfs" that are applied across the board to *all* Romulan ships).

OK, onwards!

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Fleet T'Varo

Of all the ships of other factions, this ship is most like the Fleet B'rel retrofit. It seems to cater to the same roles. Lets compare them though:


B'rel:

Weapons: 4 front, 2 back
Consoles: 3 Tactical, 4 Engineering, 3 Science
Turn rate: 23
Hull: 24750
Shield modifier 0.88
All universal stations.

T'varo:

Weapons: 4 front, 3 back
Consoles Engineering 3, Tactical: 5, Science: 2
Turn rate: 18
Hull: 33K
Shield Modifier: .99 shield
Bridge Officer Stations:
Commander Tactical Station, Lt. Commander Tactical Station, Ensign Tactical Station, Lieutenant Engineering Station and Lieutenant Science Station

It's pretty clear, immediately, that both ships are designed for huge spike damage, either from a decloack alpha strike with energy weapons, or using the enhanced battle cloak with non-energy weapons. It's also clear that the T'Varo is a whole order of magnitude better at it. It has one extra rear weapon, and not one but *two* extra tact consoles. What does it give up for this? Turn rate, which is till pretty good, and universal stations. It's stations are still pretty good, though, for a standard DPS / Alpha strike build; giving up just a possible LTC Sci, that's used in some B'Rel builds I've seen. Oh, and lest we forget, the T'varo is also a lot more durable than the B'rel!

I just can't see why a Klingon B'rel player wouldn't be better suited re-rolling KDF-ulan and flying a T'varo instead.

Last edited by cerealplayer; 05-03-2013 at 01:26 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 2
05-03-2013, 01:19 AM
Mogai is fine, do not touch it T'Varo on the other hand....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 183
# 3
05-03-2013, 01:21 AM
Fleet Dhelan and Mogai


These two ships seem similar, and seem to fit similar roles, to the FED Fleet Patrol Escort, and Fleet Advanced escort respectively. And I won't dump the stats here, but are pretty similar in specs. The big difference though, is that both the FED ships have 5 tact consoles. The Mogai gets 4, and the Dehlan gets 3 (!!) This seems to put both Romulan ships at a disadvantage in comparison to their Fed counterparts. These four ships are basically escorts. And while the Patrol and Advanced fit slightly different roles from a Fleet Defiant, their main role is to DPS. In this role, the loss of a 5th (and even 4th) tact console seems significant.

It is true that the Romulan ships get a universal station; I hardly think that compensates the loss. Mostly because it's pretty much a false choice. It is pretty hard to justify anything but an engineer in that LT universal station on the Mogai, for instance. A universal Ensign slot, while seemingly less powerful, would actually make it a meaningful choice. Still, I think many (most) players would be better served with 5 tact consoles, and no universal stations; or perhaps paying for that universal slot in a way other than tact consoles (less hull, less shield perhaps?)

Last edited by cerealplayer; 05-03-2013 at 01:23 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 183
# 4
05-03-2013, 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Mogai is fine, do not touch it T'Varo on the other hand....
I'm curious as to why you say that. Do you not think that it should have a 5 tactical consoles? If so, could you explain to me why?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 5
05-03-2013, 01:25 AM
First and foremost, I'm tired of this 5 tac console stuff obccesion, there are ships with 2, no need to give 5 tac consoles to every new ship. 4 tac consoles is enough for any escort.

And from my point Fleet Mogai is perfectly balanced ship - but yes, the univeral lt. will be used as engineer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 183
# 6
05-03-2013, 01:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
First and foremost, I'm tired of this 5 tac console stuff obccesion, there are ships with 2, no need to give 5 tac consoles to every new ship. 4 tac consoles is enough for any escort.

And from my point Fleet Mogai is perfectly balanced ship - but yes, the univeral lt. will be used as engineer.
I would hardly call it an obsession. The truth is, there is power creep in STO. Part of the creep is evidenced in the number of tact slots. Each tact slot increases your (potential) DPS significantly! To say you "don't need" one is like saying you don't need 4 forward weapons. Heck, why not fly a Tier 3 ship? You don't "need" all those extra console and boff slots? Why so obsessed with them? The answer is the same: because you want to remain competitive. Once 5 tact console ships (and heck, even 5 forward weapon ships) started showing up, showing up with less is kind of like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Or are you saying that losing a fifth tact slot is not a significant DPS loss?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 7
05-03-2013, 01:37 AM
If the T'Varo is heavy tac ship with 5 tac consoles, and the Mogai is aimed to be a tac/sci hybrid, it does not need 5 tac consoles as well. It has nice 4 sci consoles, which can be used for embasy +plasma dmg consoles with nice sci stat. While it might not get the highest "raw" dmg, the lt.sci slot with cloak can be used to great effect for another type of dmg.

Different ships, for different gameplay. I like diversity, not clones with different skins.

The Mogai is awesome, and it is the only reason I will roll a sci romulan toon.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 308
# 8
05-03-2013, 01:47 AM
actually to be fair there isn't that much of a difference between 4 and 5 tac consoles with all purple mk 12 gear, the main issue is people often dont think that is a small percentage, yes its there but not adds so much a mk 11 guy with mk 11 consoles cant beat a mk 12 guy with all mk 12 consoles.
-Spells

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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8
# 9
05-03-2013, 01:50 AM
spells is right here, the mk 12 consoles do make a difference but not enough of one to make it game breaking, time ships for example have 4 tac consoles while a bug has 5,

and if a bug equal skill with enother bug, then yes the bug with most upgraded consoles will win. but ive seen time ships **** ships and ive seen andorian ships do the same.
~~Magelord~~
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,620
# 10
05-03-2013, 02:01 AM
I agree with dalnar.

Besides if you keep adding ships with 5 consoles here or there you would just be perpetuating the power creep.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
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