Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 21
05-03-2013, 04:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerealplayer View Post
Are you people also suggesting that we "don't need" Very Rare gear? Perhaps we should all be content with common gear? We can even give a monetary value to this DPS loss: multiply the cost of 5 very rare consoles, and substract the cost of 5 common ones. That's how much your DPS loss costs according to the STO community.
I was just suggesting that not every ship must have 5 tactical consoles....nothing more, nothing else.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 181
# 22
05-03-2013, 05:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
I was just suggesting that not every ship must have 5 tactical consoles....nothing more, nothing else.
Well, that's a bit silly to argue, because no one has argued otherwise. I think that, for example, carriers with 5 tact consoles seem like a silly idea. Let me make explicit what I'm arguing:

Every current, end-game, newly introduced ESCORT (or escort-like, or escort-by-any-other name) ship, should have either have 5 tactical consoles, or make up for the dps loss from not doing so in some other way (like, for instance, having a fifth forward weapon slot).

My reasons:
  1. Escorts purpose is to flip out and kill people, sorry, I mean, do DPS. Therefore, to be a viable escort ship, they need DPS in league with other escorts
  2. All current-gen endgame fed escorts have either 5 tact consoles (Fleet Retro, Fleet Advanced, Fleet Patrol), or make up for this loss
  3. Introducing an endgame (read: fleet) escort-like ship without this dps capacity is making the ship obsolete-by-design
  4. When one faction has a full complement of 5 tactical console escorts, with different purposes (Feds), and the other factions (Romulans and KDF) have but one or two, this also creates a faction power imbalance

You seem to disagree. Do you have any logical rationale for your disagreement?
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 303
# 23
05-03-2013, 05:15 AM
In my opinion each faction should have at least one escort class ship with 5 tactical consoles for game balance's sake .
Federation has 3 ,romulans will have the t'varo and kdf have none as usual.
Federation players will continue to say that 5 tac console ships are not so good and ask why all other faction players want them.
Nothing is new and nothing will change as usual.
Originally Posted by zipagat :
"There already is a Borg faction, its called the Federation. They assimilate everyone else's technology and remove any biological or technical distinctiveness and add it to their own."
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 24
05-03-2013, 05:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerealplayer View Post
You seem to disagree. Do you have any logical rationale for your disagreement?
Yes ? because Mogai is interesting Tac/Sci hybrid that allows some rather nasty combos. 4 sci consoles can boost plasma dmg instead raw dmg, so there is nothing wrong with dps here.

Generally a ship that can decloak, scramble you with VM, then pound you with DHC grade dps is enough trouble with 4 tac consoles, it certainly does not need 5. If you need raw firepower, then there are other choices. Nothing wrong with that, there should be choices for all classes and playstyles.

Powercreep = bad. I do not think every new escort should get 5 tac consoles, much like I do not agree that every new cruiser should get 5 eng consoles.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 181
# 25
05-03-2013, 06:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Yes ? because Mogai is interesting Tac/Sci hybrid that allows some rather nasty combos. 4 sci consoles can boost plasma dmg instead raw dmg, so there is nothing wrong with dps here.
That assumes you'll be using plasma weapons, and all romulan embassy consoles. If you want to use other consoles you're SOL. Also, you're focusing on the Mogai. I get it. You like that ship. You want it just the way it is. What about the Dehlan? What about it balances out the loss of two tact consoles?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Powercreep = bad. I do not think every new escort should get 5 tac consoles, much like I do not agree that every new cruiser should get 5 eng consoles.
Powercreep isn't bad or good, it just is. It's how MMO developers make their money; that money is used to keep the games you love up and running, so in the end, I guess you can say it's good. Allow me to elaborate.

In WoW, every time Blizzard introduces a new high level raid instance, they introduce a new "tier" of gear. This is power creep. Every time they do this it makes all current gear obsolete. People have to run the new dungeon to get the latest. They can only do that so many times a week. Therefore, they have to keep playing, and paying their monthly subscription. It's how Blizzard makes money. Eve, another subscription game, but perhaps more similar to STO does a similar thing.

Now, STO is F2P. But they also need money. So they also need to introduce new gear to covet so that you spend money (either yours, buy paying for zen, or someone else's by buying their zen with your dilithium). They need to continuously entice you to buy newer ships. Hence the power creep.

Now, power creep can be bad, if it is assymetric. For example, whenever Blizzard introduces a new raid dungeon, they also introduce a new PvP gear tier. Otherwise, people would be upset that one type of player (the PvEer) gets to ride the power creep while another (the PvPer) does not. Imagine if WoW introduced new tier gear for the Alliance, but not the Horde. Or imagine if CCP introduced new Gallente ships but not Minmatar. People would be (understandably) upset.

Here, though, Cryptic has continuously power-creeped the federation, while letting the KDF languish several tiers behind. They also seem intent on letting the Romulans play catch-up from the beginning. What's worse, the playerbase seems to be OK with that. It baffles me, honestly.

Last edited by cerealplayer; 05-03-2013 at 06:21 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 26
05-03-2013, 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerealplayer View Post
What about the Dehlan? What about it balances out the loss of two tact consoles?
You mean besides its ability to be quite possibly one of the toughest and most versatile escorts in-game if handled correctly?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 27
05-03-2013, 06:24 AM
Dhelan is odd. I did not comment it, because I feel its...odd and still do not know what to think about it. Looks like some sort escort-tank-destroyer ship type to me. Obviously, most people will avoid it because of 3 tac consoles. But since the ship is also very ugly, I fully admit, I do not care about it, as I would never touch it anyway.

On the other hand, it also allows some interesting choices like warp plasma. It's odd. I would almost expect it to have hanger bay.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 777
# 28
05-03-2013, 06:34 AM
Dhelan is an escort-type ship which allows an Aux2Bat build, something which is normally reserved for cruisers. Don't underestimate this ship, this can be quite powerful.

However most people will probably still avoid the Dhelan due to the simple fact that it is plain ugly. I will most likely get a Fleet Mogai for my Tac Romulan because the other two options don't appeal to me visually.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 29
05-03-2013, 06:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
Dhelan is odd. I did not comment it, because I feel its...odd and still do not know what to think about it. Looks like some sort escort-tank-destroyer ship type to me. Obviously, most people will avoid it because of 3 tac consoles. But since the ship is also very ugly, I fully admit, I do not care about it, as I would never touch it anyway.

On the other hand, it also allows some interesting choices like warp plasma. It's odd. I would almost expect it to have hanger bay.
It basically is the Rommie version of the Chimera/Peghqu, but with better turn, higher base power (with the +15 at max singularity) and better shields and hull. With the changes to EPtX making non EPtS weaving even more powerful it's going to have all manner of versatility based on which EPtX powers are chosen, yet still being able to carry serious self/team heals and utility powers. For those who go KDF-side, with a leech console, the power levels are going to be absolutely bonkers.

Tack on the capacity to still do serious damage with the Tac slots and the flexibility a BC potentially adds, you end up with an admittedly strange, but still very dangerous ship. While I'd love to see a hangar added, I honestly think it would be a bit over the top.

As you mentioned though...it's not the most aesthetically pleasing tin can to look at.

Last edited by stirling191; 05-03-2013 at 06:45 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 181
# 30
05-03-2013, 08:08 AM
Interesting. No one has commented on the T'varo yet. Do we all agree it's currently OP?
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