I'm not in the closed beta, and to be honest, I haven't played STO in a while. So I'll be the first to accept that I can be totally off base on this (and if I am, feel free to correct me / show me where I'm wrong / what I'm missing). That said, just from looking at the stats of the Romulan ships, it seems to me that there are serious balance issues. I'll restrict my comments to the first three top-tier ships, since they are most raiders / escorts which is what I know and fly (this is not to say there may not be issues with the larger cruiser type ships, I just don't know enough to comments).
I'm basing my comments on ship-to-ship comparison between the Romulan ships and either Klingon or Fed ships. Now, of course I understand that ships ought to be unique and not direct copy pastes. However, it seems to me that in a direct comparison there ought to be advantages *AND* disadvantages to each ship. If one ship is better in every single way than another (same tier) ship, this tells me there's an imbalance.
I also realize that Romulan ships have unique singularity powers. However, *all* top tier ships have access to these, and these are supposed to be balanced by the reduced power levels (and probably other "nerfs" that are applied across the board to *all* Romulan ships).
It's pretty clear, immediately, that both ships are designed for huge spike damage, either from a decloack alpha strike with energy weapons, or using the enhanced battle cloak with non-energy weapons. It's also clear that the T'Varo is a whole order of magnitude better at it. It has one extra rear weapon, and not one but *two* extra tact consoles. What does it give up for this? Turn rate, which is till pretty good, and universal stations. It's stations are still pretty good, though, for a standard DPS / Alpha strike build; giving up just a possible LTC Sci, that's used in some B'Rel builds I've seen. Oh, and lest we forget, the T'varo is also a lot more durable than the B'rel!
I just can't see why a Klingon B'rel player wouldn't be better suited re-rolling KDF-ulan and flying a T'varo instead.
A well timed PSW3? B'rel is still superb in alphas because of the utilization they use. You dont really need Raw damage up until a certain point really...
Like I said, i have no problem with it being an escort/BoP hybrid and considering the way the game has come thusfar it seems quite in line with where it needs to be really, if anything the other endgame ships (RA ships) need a tweak.
Considering how I've seen well built cruisers go poof in 3 seconds flat when faced with a Bop I don't take much issue with the stats on this.
Tacofangs is (genuinely) the best dev ever and the forumites adore him
As others have said, and I'll re-say, I keep seeing a bunch of math on paper, that are missing quite a few variables, some of which we simply don't know about right now. So having to say it's OP because you're incomplete math tells you so, well that's just proving a lot of peoples points that anyone will cry "OP" without knowing what they're talking about.
I'm going to throw this out again as the big changer, what's the differences between their energy levels, and how much do you have to give up to get the T'Varo to the same energy level as one of it's counterparts?
When the energy level was a base 40, many of the same posters I see now were screaming how unfair that was, because how it was going to effect their DPS and survivability.
Yet in all the math I've seen in this post, crying that the T'Varo is OP, not a single one has taken that variable into account.
The next variable is, at end game, what are the differences between Singularity Cores and Warp Cores? What are the glaring omissions (such as I haven't seen a Singularity Core that buffs weapon power yet, but I may have missed it). How will a that difference efect the game play?
Traits is another that'll be problematic. What special traits do the KDF races get, that the Romulans, remans, and Aliengens don't?
There are probably other variables that I'm not thinking about, but to cry that a ship is OP, that I haven't seen anyone fly in true PvP yet, or seen Math that's even remotely accurate, tells me nothing.
I'm confused. I haven't seen anybody doing math in this thread to support the T'varo being OP...it's uh, been quite to the contrary.
Sure, some of the folks comparing stats have been comparing incomplete stats...but the math's been about the 4x vs 5x consoles and that it doesn't mean as much as many people think. Which is "against" the argument that the 5x consoles makes the T'varo OP.
Willard the Rat, Klingon, Sci (60), U.S.S. Tong Vey, Geneva Command Battlecruiser (FT6), Inner Circle
Meena, Ferasan, Tac (56), I.K.S. vagh SuD bas, B'rel Retrofit Bird-of-Prey (T5U), Ho'ragh [WIP] No-Fleet, T5U B'rel Retrofit Build
Doesn't this also include an oversight? Stacking same-type damage consoles works better for ships whom are expected to deliver a constant stream of relatively potent damage; such as most fed escorts in STFs.
If you're in a warbird/raider, wouldn't you prize your spike damage ability more than sustained damage? If there's a huge diminishing impact the more you stack consoles, wouldn't you split your tac console allotment to something like 3 energy and 2 kinetic? (especially in a ship with many tactical stations so you could spread out through the subsystem cooldowns rather than being pidgeonholed into 'just' a cannon build)
Though for a T'varo I wouldn't be surprise to see a full 5x kinetic consoles to take advantage of being able to fire torpedoes out of the enhanced battle cloak... though I hear that similar build on the B'rel is not all that successful.
if anything the other endgame ships (RA ships) need a tweak.
Here's the thing. RA ships. I think that's what people keep comparing this stuff to. And that's bad.
A fleet version of a retrofit?
That's paid money/resources for the retrofit. And paid money/resources for the ship module. OR paid money/resources for the fleet modules AND extra paid money/resources for the EXTRA fleet module.
Damn skippy that ship better be more powerful than those rinky dink 2010 end-game FREE Rear Admiral ships.
If that's how people are defining OP in terms of ship metrics, then everything since the Galaxy X is OP.
A 10 console fleet version of a retrofit ship absolutely should be better than a 9 console Rear Admiral ship like ye olde Star Cruiser. People who can't accept that have somehow missed the past three years of mudflation/power creep that this game has done in terms of ship design and progression.
My very first Rear Admiral was an engineer who flew a Deep Space Science Vessel. Guess what? That Vesta three pack I got a couple months ago? That ship's far better than the DSSV I flew in 2010.
Agreed on all counts and I am not comparing it to RA versions, I am COMPARING it to C-store and fleet ships, I was simply stating that RA ships could use a slight boost in some or other way (perhaps even just a hull and shield boost) as endgame PvE is lacking these days as it is balanced around the old ships while people play the new ones so a slight stat boost wouldn't hurt them too much and maybe add to the endgame a little and peeps in the PvP queues suffer as some people do still fly these relics and are doomed from the moment they warp in.
Tacofangs is (genuinely) the best dev ever and the forumites adore him