Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,048
# 1 Tougher PvE
05-03-2013, 03:17 PM
I've been playing now since F2P and know my way around the games systems, I've also played all the current content to death and am at a loss as to why I am still playing this game BUT that is not the point of this thread, the point of this thread is to see about getting some harder content.

Something like what Hive onslaught was during the Tribble test weekend where the AI had a better damage output (slightly lower than now) but a FAR better AI (tac cubes using Viral matrix and stuff), it made you work for a living (unless you had the right team composition). Could we please have something like this that we can throw our elite build ships at and still get a challenge from?

I for one am not finding the content fun anymore and ALL of it (EVEN NWS) is done best by a team of 5 tac/scorts and it is time to break that mold and have something that REQUIREs the skills the other captain/ship classes bring, preferably something that doesn't involve the borg as most of us long term players are sick of the sight of them but please devs ANYTHING that isn't DPS based!

On a side note: can we see some more balance changes in the game please?

For the community: please discuss! What do you guys want to see in PvE?
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 321
# 2
05-03-2013, 05:04 PM
Group PvE suffers from the following problems, imo:

1) Missions are too short and require too many repeats.

2) Enemy design is too simplistic.

1) With the fleet advancement and rep system that's in the game currently, it is necessary to have short, quickly repeatable missions so people who can only play here and there, and maybe not always be able to get 4 bros to play with them, can still play. So some short missions that can be near-PuGged and don't require a specific team build (ie. 5 players with a decent grasp of the mission can do it without needing to really talk to each other, so you can get groups easily) should remain in the game.

But it isn't necessary to have nearly all of them like that. In fact, it contributes to the boredom & ease of end-level PvE for long-term players, and ultimately to the impression that the game is one big, unfun, grind-sandwich, which is the reason why a lot of people have stopped playing.

Let's say for simple example that you need to do 300 minutes of playtime in a certain mission to reach a certain goal. Which do you think you'll get bored of first, a ten minute mission, with only ten minutes of tactics that need to be learned and mastered, which needs to be done 30 times? Or a thirty minute mission with thirty minutes of tactics and learning that needs to be done 10 times?

It's obviously going to be the former, isn't it? Now imagine you have to do 30,000 minutes of playtime to get what you want (as is the case in the game). It's going to get even more mind-numbing.

Missions don't have to be marathons, and shorter missions need to exist to be fair to everyone. But a bit more length and complexity than exists now would go some way to delaying the point when you start to play missions on auto-pilot. And there are only two alternatives to short zerg-fest group PvE missions - Terradome & NWS. That's not enough.

I also appreciate that no one's obliging me to grind, but if I want any worthwhile loot reward anymore, I have to.


2) They're mostly just mountains of health with few useful abilities. This makes destroying them a matter of wearing them down. Cut their health and give them the ability to heal themselves. Give them powers that make mindlessly burning through damage buffs as quickly as possible a bad idea once in a while.

These two problems together create a predictable PvE environment that can get really stale sometimes, as well as a DPS-dominant meta, since you just want to relieve your enemies of a large amount of HP in the shortest time possible, and you don't really need any tanking or debuffs, or disables/stuns, or crowd control to defeat them.


This isn't all Cryptic or PWE's fault, btw.

Because do you know what this forum would be flooded with if Cryptic introduced a new STF that was 3x as long as the existing ones, with complex objectives, enemy AIs that required thinking, tactics and co-ordination, and was pretty much entirely un-PuGgable?

A lot of crying about how it can't be PuGged, is too hard and how people who either lack the desire or ability to get an organised group together are being locked out of content.



Anyhow, tl;dr version:
What I'd like to see from PvE in this game is longer missions and enemies with more useful abilities.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 85
# 3
05-04-2013, 07:34 AM
Play pvp
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,048
# 4
05-04-2013, 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinetic78 View Post
Play pvp
But that only goes so far before you have to return to the PvE grind to get the next piece of gear and then we end up back where we started with a desire for PvE to be harder
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,181
# 5
05-04-2013, 11:56 AM
If they make new missions and they are very hard most people won't play them because random group of people would have a extremely hard time completing them. Just look at ground vs. space missions. Space missions are easier to get going then ground because they are much easier to complete. Making missions that a random group can complete is good for keeping people playing.

If you want more of a challenge play with random people no private matches and use weaker gear/equipment no duty officers on active duty and even a weaker ship. When something is to easy for someone that person need to create a challenge for themselves.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 421
# 6
05-04-2013, 01:09 PM
remember the fed introductory mission?


its the best mission in the game. you have a goal and you are on a shared map with other players trying to reach that goal.

it is the only mission that makes it really feel like there is a war going on.


They tired to recreate that experience with nukura, but it fell flat, as it is too easy

ideally you would have a map with a stages that are increasingly hard to even reach, where you have to stay as a large group and cooperate

like a harder version of Breaking the Planet (by far the best ground PvE imo) except that map instance doesn't end and the goals are individual or team (like Defera and to a lesser degree, Nukura)

basically to cultivate raids and cooperation
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 354
# 7
05-04-2013, 09:44 PM
Why not shorter missions that showcase one or two extremely difficult bosses? Especially ones that force non-traditional PvE weapons and mechanics. That seems to me the best middle ground to strike, here.

I'll toss out a couple ideas, just to spur some creative juices.

Give us a temporal incursion ESTF. Throw in the sphere builders, I don't know. Three bosses:

1. A temporal science vessel. This little sucker would have a turn rate of around 30, and flight speed around 100. Give it AI to constantly get abaft of the ship with aggro, and constantly drop mines and/or turrets. That forces players to reposition and plan movement like a mofo, while managing area-denial attacks. Make it weak against slows and holds, and even chroniton weapons, so CC is the best/only way to deal with it.

2. A temporal support vessel. This bad boy emits anti-matter spread in constant pulses, and throws out a special version of viral matrix that spreads when player ships are within 5Km of one another. Have it target randomly, and switch targets between salvos, so aggro is completely unpredictable. That plays hell with targeting, positioning, and healing and forces players to very carefully maneuver and plan their strikes so as to not damage others.

3. A sphere. Its cloaking barrier prevents targeting outside 3Km, and it constantly emits a gravity well with a radius of 3Km that does some serious damage. If more than three targets are within 3Km, it photonic shockwaves. Players would have to coordinate attack runs, get in and alpha strike, and get out before the grav well tears them apart. Outside 3Km, adds spawn that have to be controlled by players not doing attack runs.

Hmm, other ideas...

- A boss that has low hull, but high shields and extremely high hull repair. It alternates between two phases: reverse shield polarity, and feedback pulse. The high hull repair trait means it can't merely be pummeled with torpedoes and bleedthrough damage, and has to be burst down through its "feedback pulse" phase. Just gotta survive the feedback pulse to burst it down, which means doing too much damage could bite an unwary player in the butt, and hard.

- A boss with a variant of the subspace jumper, except it jumps in front of a player, drops tractor mines, and vents a theta radiation variant that does a crapload of kinetic damage (like 10K/sec) and kills accuracy (so the player can't take its subspace jump as an opportunity to alpha strike it). The player that got jumped has to polarize hull or APO, and power their way out of the radiation cloud before it kills them.

- A carrier boss with a single-facing shield neutralizer. It punishes tactical team use, hard, by zapping away all shields if TT is active, leaving the player(s) vulnerable to its attack craft. Or better, a single-facing shield drain, which heals the carrier for whatever shields are drained away from the player.

- A temporal science vessel boss with a Manheim device. The "present" ship constantly heals the "past" ship, the "future" ship placates and jams players that target the "present" ship, and the "past" ship bursts the crap out of whatever player targets it.
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:

Spock's Brain.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 596
# 8
05-04-2013, 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adamkafei View Post
I've been playing now since F2P and know my way around the games systems, I've also played all the current content to death and am at a loss as to why I am still playing this game BUT that is not the point of this thread, the point of this thread is to see about getting some harder content.

What do you guys want to see in PvE?
Yay!
Another fetish abuse thread!

So, like...what makes you think 1-shot-insta-kill WTFtorps makes for more of a challenge?
Trying to finish the mission in this lifetime?
Imagine all the times you were shot ONCE and now think of those single shots meaning instant death...

Now, for a more serious suggestion:
Cryptic can add more optional objectives and increase the rewards for completing them AND only for pugs.
Now THAT'S a challenge.
NO to ARC...Make It VOLUNTARY

RIP KDF 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 596
# 9
05-04-2013, 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinetic78 View Post
Play pvp
This is the better suggestion.
NO to ARC...Make It VOLUNTARY

RIP KDF 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 10
05-06-2013, 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezking View Post
Yay!
Another fetish abuse thread!

So, like...what makes you think 1-shot-insta-kill WTFtorps makes for more of a challenge?
Trying to finish the mission in this lifetime?
Imagine all the times you were shot ONCE and now think of those single shots meaning instant death...

Now, for a more serious suggestion:
Cryptic can add more optional objectives and increase the rewards for completing them AND only for pugs.
Now THAT'S a challenge.
I don't recall him saying anything about 1 shot weapons.


It's possible to make a harder ai without giving it 1 shot abilities.

Take a look at all the powers we as the player have access to, now look at the npc. It doesn't even have emergency power to shields or tactical team! Just those 2 powers alone would make fighting the ai a little more fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
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