Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 212
# 1 Make the Game More Balanced
05-06-2013, 02:39 PM
I am re-posting this here because I feel that this rant deserves its own thread since it deals with a major aspect of the game:

I am really disappointed that whenever ship changes hit, the same old conversation and whining starts up. It's always: "It won't be able to do enough DPS;" "Make this ship able to do more DPS;" "DPS is the only thing that matters so beef up X ship's DPS capabilities."

NEVER do I see the conversation starting with "This isn't a good DPS ship, so make changes to the game to make non-DPS ships worth something." Saying we need ships to do more DPS just perpetuates the problem of this game only rewarding DPS by creating a vicious cycle in which there is a race to the top to see who can do more DPS which inevitably creates more players who will create a vicious backlash if/when devs try to make the game more balanced which in turn makes the devs unwilling/unable to implement those changes.

We need to change the discourse of this community from one of "Give me MOAR DPS!!!!" to "Make end game in this game about more than DPS/escorts!" Force this to be a priority for the devs. As many great economists have said, DIVERSIFY! Bring that golden triangle of MMO's back! Reward players who tank and heal! There should be a reason to fly tanks that can't pull large amounts of DPS!
"That hurts worse than the uniform." - Dr. McCoy on the Vulcan salute
"On Vulcan, the teddy bears are alive. And they have six-inch fangs." - Spock on sehlats
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 126
# 2
05-06-2013, 02:52 PM
In PVE, theres really no use for a tank style ship, sure if you go into an STF with yer fleet mates and some of them are using "glass hull" half finished escorts then a big assed oddy or fleet excelsior using FAW (or scatter volley for a cannon build excelsior) would ease the pressure from the escorts... but again, nine times out of ten it just aint needed.

This game has become DPS centric, there is absolutley no way for that to be fixed now, its cryptics own design which has made the game go down this road. I'm a cruiser TAC captain, i know my old fleet excelsior wont be able to out DPS some of the escort pilots who are "in the know" but ive seen my Excelsior bresak into the 6 or 7k DPS with its current cannon build...and outlast a lot of glass hull average escort pilots.

The problem is, when it comes to tanking, ive seen escorts being literally wailed on by 5 other ships in pvp...and it took a LONG time for that escort to fold up and blow.

A good "in the know" escort captain can make an escort ship be a tank and a DPS monster... hence why this game has become known as Star Trek: In Name Only or Star Trek: Escorts Online for a while now.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 212
# 3
05-06-2013, 03:04 PM
Oh, I think there are still plenty of ways to change the system. To name a few I've heard/thought up:
1. Make ESTF's more raid like where you need all three prongs of the golden triangle to run them.

2. Increase the respawn timer to like 2 minutes in ESTF's, etc. This would reward survivability and even out DPS. People who can do burst damage but have glass cannons will get in their large damage but be mitigated by the fact that they probably couldn't sustain it over long times (or add lesser damage in between bursts) as they get blown up/have to leave to heal up. Tanks might do less damage, but would be able to stick it out and get in more damage, so their DPS would probably be more equivalent to escorts than they are now. And for teams, it would make having a healer nice to prevent glass cannons from blowing up.

3. Give cruisers something extra like how the escorts get the ability to equip cannons (yes, a few cruisers can do this too) and sci ships get sensor analysis and target subsystems abilities. What is the equivalent for cruisers? Nothing (maybe hull/crew amount but as you say, some escorts can get pretty close to the survivability of tanks if they do it right). Some suggestions: space armor that beefs up hp and crew; paladin like powers that can buff DPS/heals/etc. for ally ships within a certain range of the cruiser.

4. Give engineers more offensive capabilities.

Most of these are geared towards engineers/crusiers, but I see that as the main weakness right now. Sci captains are good with carriers because they generally need lots of power to aux anyway; they also get photonic fleet and a host of offensive/debuff/healing abilities. Tac captains get lots of DPS enhancing powers. Engineers get what? The ability to have boosted power levels every 2 minutes or so (and miracle worker... which doesn't help anybody but the engineer). I play an engineer and I wish I had some better tools powers in space (on the ground, engineers are beasts with all their turrets).
"That hurts worse than the uniform." - Dr. McCoy on the Vulcan salute
"On Vulcan, the teddy bears are alive. And they have six-inch fangs." - Spock on sehlats
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 740
# 4
05-06-2013, 05:04 PM
Well PWE/Cryptic could fix it and EASILY:
escort: NERF DPS or lower armor (again)
cruiser: higher DPS (to be on par with low level escorts)
science: higher armor and DPS


But they seem to be obsessed with tiny weak ships that are supposed to be GLASS being indestructible death dealers.... its star trek, balance, go cannon or sell the rights to someone who will.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 251
# 5
05-06-2013, 05:23 PM
They can bring the the classes together a little more in tac/engineering/sci and put more of a defined role on the ships we fly. That'd probably call for a big ship overhaul though.

Remove the holy trinity.
VA Makbure
The 47th Defense Division Special Ops
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 258
# 6
05-06-2013, 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by makbure View Post
They can bring the the classes together a little more in tac/engineering/sci and put more of a defined role on the ships we fly. That'd probably call for a big ship overhaul though.

Remove the holy trinity.
So... if you're eradicating the trinity roles of tank/damage/healer, what roles were you thinking they'd use, and how would you make them relevant? The trinity is already out of this game, as the necessary roles are DPS/DPS/DPS... if you aren't doing a metric buttload of damage, you're not doing everything that you could be to help your team.
__________________________________________________
Joined January 2010.

In regard to hating Star Trek 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by kain9prime View Post
IDIC fail.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,991
# 7
05-06-2013, 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarek93 View Post
Make the Game More Balanced
I'm sure Cryptic (and every other game developer) never thought of that!
I always thought they wanted to make it has horrible as possible.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have stuff to rant about on the forums!

Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 251
# 8
05-07-2013, 01:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkkindness2 View Post
So... if you're eradicating the trinity roles of tank/damage/healer, what roles were you thinking they'd use, and how would you make them relevant? The trinity is already out of this game, as the necessary roles are DPS/DPS/DPS... if you aren't doing a metric buttload of damage, you're not doing everything that you could be to help your team.
So what normally happens when people gravitate to the same things in the tree? Merge them with the less used abilities and then later on make them trainable without having to select them in a tree. yeah, Sci can use some more Tac stuff and Tacs can use more utility from Sci. So yeah, there should be cross training so everyone can do everything as well as DPS.
VA Makbure
The 47th Defense Division Special Ops
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 471
# 9
05-07-2013, 02:38 AM
A key problem with the idea of DPS/Healer/Tank in this game is that all skills are on long cooldowns. You dont get sustained dps from enemies because our Heath pools are too low and you dont get spike healing from healers because everything is gradual and/or has long cooldowns.

So you change it, remove cooldowns from most heals and have enemies do much higher sustained dps. Great. Except pvp is completely ruined because every dps character can heal as well as every tank.

The holy trinity doesn't work in games where EVERYONE can heal as well as everyone else.
Career Officer
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,998
# 10
05-07-2013, 03:31 AM
i made mention of this on another thread, i know its kinda cheesy picking up my own quote but it suits the point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirrorchaos View Post
the way i would see it that escort ships primary purpose is heavy single fire support with no survivability, typically attacking flanking ships to secure the much larger slower moving galaxy class cruisers.

while the galaxy cruisers main aim is command and control, buff and debuff of all allies including the healing which would draw the highest threat next to escorts and destroy ships when possible but have decent enough dps to do such a thing in the middle of the battlefield.

while science ships do their magic with control effects on mobs and generally making a nuisance while only having limited abilities for healing, their main purpose is supporting the escorts and defending the engineering cruiser from retaliation by controlling the battlefield.

the current sto targeting system is worse beyond awful for quick targeting allies while finding you target you were attacking, i think it should be changed. butbasically though to make everyone rely on each other in an elite scenario instead of the usual chaotic "teamwork" or there a lack of.

Tactical is pure DPS, nothing more. (no heals or buffs beyond offensive only and requires the engineer or science ship that can heal and debuff enemy buffs and must be in range of the engineer at all times to survive prolonged attacks, it works best with science ships due to passive buff.)

Engineering is the primary healer and tank. (highest threat taker and best healer/tank, so primary to survival but requires DPS for prolonged fights. additionally engineering ships gain a base passive threat generation and an active AOE threat generation ability with a cooldown so tacticals dont get an easy ride all the way.)

Science is DPS support and secondary healer. (Primary support for the escorts and can create trouble for the enemy mobs by creating minor singularities and such while applying passive targeting buff to tactical captains, which increases their damage, accuracy and resistances within range in order to keep science ships close to tactical captains. but science ships also need to keep in range of the engineer ship to keep threat away and keep heals going.)
Joined STO late 2010. Bought starter pack LoR & LTS 2013.
Proud owner of a Targ pup to a federation character.
T5 Miranda FTW! Hope to see Miranda Class made a T5 ship.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:54 PM.