Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,007
# 31
05-09-2013, 03:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainrevo1 View Post
I love when someone goes. 'just fix it at 50' because they want it as cheap as possible for the players.
Doesn't have to be 50. I'll settle for 55
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 771
# 32
05-09-2013, 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainrevo1 View Post
I love when someone goes. 'just fix it at 50' because they want it as cheap as possible for the players.

dont worry about the other half of the playerbase, the zen sellers. screw them trying to get value for money.
Indeed, I haven't sold any zen myself since the 360 something rate that existed months ago.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 258
# 33
05-09-2013, 09:03 PM
All these people saying Cryptic makes more money when the Zen rate is high or low are wrong.

Cryptic makes the most money when people spend cash to buy zen, and they only do that when there are z store items that lots of players want.

Manipulating Zen prices up or down is irrelevant for Cryptic since they control the total supply of dilithium, and they control the supply of z store items.

300 dil per zen or 50 dil per zen makes no difference to Cryptic. Their profits are based on how many Zen are leaving the system.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,122
# 34
05-10-2013, 01:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxinvictus View Post
All these people saying Cryptic makes more money when the Zen rate is high or low are wrong.

Cryptic makes the most money when people spend cash to buy zen, and they only do that when there are z store items that lots of players want.

Manipulating Zen prices up or down is irrelevant for Cryptic since they control the total supply of dilithium, and they control the supply of z store items.

300 dil per zen or 50 dil per zen makes no difference to Cryptic. Their profits are based on how many Zen are leaving the system.
Granted, I'm far from being an expert regarding economics but isn't a high Z rate more likely to be in PWE's favour? If the rate is 50 a player might settle for grinding his dil for getting something of the store. If the rate is 500 the grind gets more tedious and more players are tempted to just buy zen with currency instead of giving in to weeks or months of grinding.

I'm not saying that they influence the exchange, though
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 866
# 35
05-10-2013, 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angrytarg View Post
Granted, I'm far from being an expert regarding economics but isn't a high Z rate more likely to be in PWE's favour? If the rate is 50 a player might settle for grinding his dil for getting something of the store. If the rate is 500 the grind gets more tedious and more players are tempted to just buy zen with currency instead of giving in to weeks or months of grinding.
No. It doesn't matter how a player gets his/her Zen. Someone has paid PWE for it or it wouldn't exist.

Not everyone buys Zen. The dilithium exchange is a way of increasing the customer base for the C-store, by allowing the players who buy Zen to sell it to the players who don't. This allows PWE to monetize the entire playerbase, instead of just the fraction that buys Zen directly.

The free market of the dilithium exchange maximizes the amount of trading. When the price is too high, people buy less and there is a natural pressure on sellers to lower the price to get their product sold and when it's too low, people sell less and the pressure is on buyers to offer more to get any. The price will tend to stabilize at the point where supply and demand meet.

Manipulating the exchange rate in either direction would reduce the amount of Zen being traded, and therefore the amount of Zen being bought.
Ensign
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 7
# 36
05-10-2013, 07:22 AM
You're trying to sound like you know what you're talking about yet you're making some very dubious assertions. To say that how players get their zen is irrelevant seems to show you know very little about microeconomics, but more importantly you seem to believe that a higher exchange rate would not encourage more people to buy zen in order to purchase dilithium.

Obviously an equilibrium would eventually be found, and in the long-run the main determiner of the exchange rate will be the motives to trade dilithium for zen; essentially the desirability of the items on the c-store. Yes the market will settle, but this higher demand also has the effect of increasing the amount of zen bought via real money due to some people deciding to save their dilithium and instead use real money to purchase zen, if that trade-off is more favorable for them.

Ultimately Cryptic WILL make more money with a higher rate, because zen bought via real cash will increase if it is harder to acquire through in-game resources such as dilithium, assuming of course that Cryptic doesn't manipulate the sources of dilithium to increase the supply side. Ultimately however the C-store's items and the value of dilithium to players in-game versus the value of zen is what will determine the equilibrium exchange rate, but please don't assume that fluxuations due to something like an expansion release won't effect the market.
A higher exchange rate will indeed reduce the amount of dilithium being traded, but it will also certainly increase the amount of Zen being purchased, as the benefit from purchasing points is greater than before. This is rather basic economics.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 258
# 37
05-10-2013, 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angrytarg View Post
Granted, I'm far from being an expert regarding economics but isn't a high Z rate more likely to be in PWE's favour? If the rate is 50 a player might settle for grinding his dil for getting something of the store. If the rate is 500 the grind gets more tedious and more players are tempted to just buy zen with currency instead of giving in to weeks or months of grinding.

I'm not saying that they influence the exchange, though
It doesnt matter if some one grinds dil to buy stuff from the c store, because someone bought that zen, and someone took it out of circulation by using it in the c store.

The only thing that really matters is that someone wants to buy the Zen and someone wants to spend it. The cost of zen is a function of the dilithium supply, but has no impact on their profits. Dilithium supply simply needs to be tuned so dilithium in to the economy matches the dilithium being spent.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 258
# 38
05-10-2013, 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thaded View Post
You're trying to sound like you know what you're talking about yet you're making some very dubious assertions. To say that how players get their zen is irrelevant seems to show you know very little about microeconomics, but more importantly you seem to believe that a higher exchange rate would not encourage more people to buy zen in order to purchase dilithium.
Sorry to tell you, but I have a BA in economics, and his analysis fits economic theory just fine.

Make your case, but don't think you're going to get away with arguing from a position of authority.

To address your argument directly: Higher dilithium exchange rates may encourage people to want to buy Zen to exchange for dilithium, but they don't have any effect of the desire of people to spend Zen. Unless people are spending Zen, the supply of Zen will quickly outstrip demand, and the price will bottom back out. the higher short term demand defeats itself, and you wind up at equilibrium.

What ultimately matters is that there are C-store items that people want to buy with Zen, period. That's the business model.

The fact that Dilithium and Zen can be exchanged is a necessary function of the free to play model, so that players can plausibly get anything from just playing the game, but the reality is that regardless of where the exchange rate rests, the amount of dilithium unto the game has to be balanced against the amount leaving the game (to create compelling goals), and the amount of zen being bought has to be balanced by convincing people to spend that zen in the shop.

The ratio between those two currencies is basically irrelevant, except that it has to be set by an actual market and not arbitrarily.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 307
# 39
05-10-2013, 08:03 PM
I must admit, this thread has made me giggle. Isn't the point of the dilithium market to be player driven? If it's high or low, it's the players that push that line.

With that said, it's high now, and increasing, due in part to the last Crystalline Entity event where we were given that nice stash of 50k dilithium, not to mention LoR being released to the sharks in a few days. It's only going to go up in price for now. When the exchange first came out, zen was what, 350 per? I'm surprised it isn't any higher now, but it'll come. You want lower prices, wait a few months for things to settle down, it'll drop again.

In the meantime, either store up the dilithium for that said period of time, or just throw around real currency. Your choice.

Formerly known as Echo@Rivyn13
Member since early 2011
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 293
# 40
05-11-2013, 04:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfaustx View Post

would like to know what pwe is going to do about it, because they also want a low zen rate (to sell more)
i got dil, that i want to spend, but i refuse to buy at this rate... and i know ALOT of people that agree with this

why are all these idiots buying zen so high !!
let it drop..

I always promised myself that I wouldn't nit pick threads but I have to on this occasion. I dont mean to cause offence to the OP.

PWE is going to do absolutely nothing about it other than key and zen promo's like they normally do. Bearing in mind Zen is across all PWE games so if it affects EVERY game then they will do something about it... otherwise it;s left to grow and contract on it's own like most other economies.

If you have dilithium and refuse to spend it then...well... Good for you! you keep storing that dilithium then when the time is right you cash it all in, but calling people idiots because the price isn't what you want it to be is a bit extreme... sit back...take a chill pill and remember the first tennet of this game... Be patient...
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