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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,926
made this post on some tribble thread, got burred and unnoticed though. with large cruisers being so crap in their current form, what do you guys think?


there should proboly be a new class of cruiser, between cruisers and carriers, call them all dreadnoughts or something. the difference is that ships get more consoles and a second LTC station in exchange for them being so large. they would all have the COM, LTC, LTC, LT setup, with between 10 to 11 consoles. their turn rates should range from 6 to 9, and they should have the lowest inertia. small cruisers should get a turn rate and inertia buff in exchange. also a +5 to defense score buff, wile these dreadnoughts get a -5 to defense score, and a -.2 to impulse modifier vs a normal cruiser. wile your at it, give sci ships a scaling + to defense score as their sensor analysis ranks increase, vs their target, up to +10. give escorts a +15 defense score, and a +5 acc bonus vs dreadnoughts too.

ships that should be in the dreadnoughts category are:

d'deridex
ha'apax
negvar
bortas
odyssey
galaxys

they should come stranded with 10 consoles, fleet versions coming with 11.

d'deridex
COM sci
LTC eng
LTC tac
LT uni
ENS sci

9 turn
42k hull
1.0 shield mod
consoles:
3 eng
4 sci
3 tac(+1 for fleet)


ha'apax
COM eng
LTC tac
LTC uni
LT sci
ENS uni

6 turn
46k hull
1.05 shield mod
consoles:
4 eng
3 sci
3 tac(+1 for fleet)


negvar
COM tac
LTC eng
LTC eng

LT uni
ENS sci

9 turn
45k hull
1.0 shield mod
consoles:
4 eng
2 sci
4 tac(+1 for fleet)


bortas
COM eng
LTC tac
LTC uni
LT tac
ENS uni

6 turn
47k hull
1.0 shield mod
consoles:
4 eng(+1 War Cruiser)
2 sci(+1 Command Cruiser)
4 tac(+1 Tactical Cruiser)


galaxyR
COM eng
LTC tac
LTC sci
LT uni
ENS sci

8 turn
48k hull
1.05 shield mod
consoles:
4 eng
3 sci(+1 for fleet)
3 tac


galaxyX
COM tac
LTC eng
LTC eng

LT uni
ENS sci

8 turn
48k hull
1.05 shield mod
consoles:
4 eng
2 sci(+1 for fleet)
4 tac


odyessy
COM eng
LTC sci
LTC uni
LT tac
ENS uni

7 turn
50k hull
1.15 shield mod
consoles:
4 eng(+1 for Operations Cruiser)
4 sci(+1 for Science Cruiser)
2 tac(+1 for Tactical Cruiser)

why would i propose something so seemingly OP? simple, the larger a ship is, the worse it performs, this is finally a balancing step to put these things in line. these ships move like carriers but have no hangers, and have inferior numbers of stations. buffing the level of stations they have to carrier level, and adding another console to them, and lifting the turn rate florr for them ever so is appropriate. you cant just make them turn better till they are good, that would crowd the smaller cruisers out at what should be their strength, a balance of maneuverability and sturdiness. why is the galaxy getting a turn rate of 8? well, compared to all these other ships in the category, its actually the smallest. so ya, 8 is appropriate vs the rest of these huge ships.

the sovereign, star cruiser, ambassador, excelsior, cheyenne, dkora, galor, vorcha, corsair, kamarang and ktinga should get increased inertia and turn rate in exchange for not being one of the stat bloated dreadnoughts, with a range of 12 to 9.

sovereign-9.5 turn, 40 inertia
star cruiser-9 turn, 35 inertia
ambassador-9 turn, 40 inertia
excelsior-10 turn, 50 inertia
cheyenne-10.5 turn, 50 inertia
dkora- 9.5 turn, 40 inertia
galor- 11 turn, 50 inertia
vorcha- 10.5 turn, 40 inertia
corsair- 9.5 turn, 40 inertia
kamarang- 11 turn, 45 inertia
ktinga- 11.5 turn, 50 inertia
______________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus

Last edited by dontdrunkimshoot; 05-09-2013 at 11:22 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 734
# 2
05-09-2013, 03:46 AM
Unfortunately, I can't see them changing BO loadouts of ships that have already been released.

To do so would change something people have already purchased and there would be an outrage from those who don't like it (see: Andorian Phasers).

Precedent being the SNB DOff - they weren't willing to change the entire nature of the proc, only the proc rate, since people had already heavily invested in it.
The first we heard of getting new PvP maps "soon" was in August of 2010. We're consistently told something will be coming with the "next" update. Absolutely nothing has come to PvP since launch.

I think it's finally time Cryptic stopped stringing us along, don't you?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 3
05-09-2013, 03:50 AM
But Geko said in one of his last podcast that they want to improve galaxy and nebula. Now I cannot imagine selling another Galaxy.

venture
Galaxy-R
Fleet galaxy

That's already almost worth oddy pack. Releasing another Gal with "proper" layout and then charge another 2500 Zen for it...would be well...bad PR.

I can imagine changing the Galaxy-R, because those who bought it, can requsition it again. And buy new fleet version for one module. And I do not know anyone who bought T4 Galaxy for 4 modules anyway.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,874
# 4
05-09-2013, 04:17 AM
I like some of the idea but would be worried about taking a defense penalty. You also give up having a 5th boff trait if this were to happen, so that's another big hit to crit chance or def bonus. Having 2 Lt Cmdr stations like a carrier or Fleet Norgh or soon to be D'Deridex retrofit is pretty powerful though.

Also that bortasqu layout would mess up a lot of my builds if that were to happen. I use it on a tac and eng captains and usually use a lt Cmdr uni as tac on my tac captain, but on my eng captain it sometimes is used as sci or eng. The ensign uni gets moved around to all 3 positions also. If the Lt Cmdr tac were to be universal and the Lt Cmdr Uni be made to sci I could probably transfer all my builds to that layout though, if not the Lt Cmdr uni wouldn't be very universal since it would have to be sci.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,306
# 5
05-09-2013, 05:10 AM
I like the idea of an armor modifier based off of vessel size that effects the armor console stats similiar to shield modifier effects shields.
In addition to DDIS idea. Especially if the KDF is included in said idea.
He who laughs last thinks slowest.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 45
# 6
05-09-2013, 05:54 AM
Those are pretty dramatic changes. An easier way to improve cruisers may be to simply create a "fast cruiser variant" that traded hull for better manuverability and engine performance.

One other idea may be to give all cruisers a bonus vs weapon power drain associated with firing multiple weapons (basically a built-in, always-on Nadion Beam).

Before Engineers start to grab their pitchforks, I'd change both Nadion Beam and EPS to point-blank AoE fields and make Miracle Worker useable on others.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 7
05-09-2013, 06:06 AM
I would be just happy with

Lt.cmd
Cmd.
Lt.
Lt.cmd

Layout for Galaxy-R.The poor turn rate is enough to offset such layout. And I wouldn't even mind the curent 5/3/2 console layout, with a better offensive saucer sep stats.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,206
# 8
05-09-2013, 10:22 AM
I think that this is an interesting idea.

Cruisers / Battlecruisers

Furthermore, perhaps the largest of cruisers etc, could have their warp cores increase their power threshold to 135.

In line with how the escorts dish out more dmg the closer they are to target, cruisers should get additional bonus based on distance e.g.

10 - 12 - boosted damage.
5 -10 - standard damage.
0 - 5 - boosted damage.

This greatly increases their offensive defense, which means that escorts will have to "get-in-&-get-the-job-done-or-die".

Science

Science vessels should have their sensor analysis increased to a max. stacking of 12, and perhaps buffed by aux. bonus modifiers.

What I would really like to see down the line is the scale of these ships to be slightly increased.

Last edited by drkfrontiers; 05-09-2013 at 10:31 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,206
# 9
05-09-2013, 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurriknak View Post
Those are pretty dramatic changes. An easier way to improve cruisers may be to simply create a "fast cruiser variant" that traded hull for better manuverability and engine performance.

One other idea may be to give all cruisers a bonus vs weapon power drain associated with firing multiple weapons (basically a built-in, always-on Nadion Beam).

Before Engineers start to grab their pitchforks, I'd change both Nadion Beam and EPS to point-blank AoE fields and make Miracle Worker useable on others.
By and large cruisers are currently in dire need of something significant.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 734
# 10
05-09-2013, 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
By and large cruisers are currently in dire need of something significant.
Eh, I'm not so sure... there are some pretty damn effective Tac/Cruisers out there, especially with Aux 2 Batt. Even Sci/Cruisers aren't so bad.
The first we heard of getting new PvP maps "soon" was in August of 2010. We're consistently told something will be coming with the "next" update. Absolutely nothing has come to PvP since launch.

I think it's finally time Cryptic stopped stringing us along, don't you?
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