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Lt. Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 127
# 31
05-13-2013, 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
And this is EXACTLY why I've argued that leech should not be brought over. Because as it is now, Federation Romulans will come up with innovative, creative builds, while Klink Romulans will just run to the leech and rebuild their cookie-cutter prefab ships.
Their "cookie-cutter" builds are tried and tested. They are also superior to anything a Fed-Romulan can come up with while compensating for the lower base power levels.

Innovative and creative builds will not be as effective as the current builds. People seem to think there is a lot of depth to this game. This is far from the truth.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 294
# 32
05-13-2013, 03:25 PM
your talking pve which any brain dead monkey can do im talking pvp where every little bit counts and btw you do realise of course that singularity jumps you the direction your looking and puts the singularity at your position before jump other then the fact that in pvp most people are IMMUNE to control due to Attack pattern omega and polerize hull/dampners being a must have right?

what im saying is pve you can do pvp your not even close to being competitive i have been playing science since season 2 i know the combos what works what doesnt the only use for gravity well these days is npcs/fighters/decloaking and most of those there is a better option that's usually much faster(it involved stupid high dps that the devs miraculously gave to tacts)

and a tact rom isnt at as high a useless factor as a sci rom this is the main point even if you can control your enemy your damage won't be enough to do jack diddly to him and the longer time goes the more 1v1s or even 2v2s become impossible eventually i imagine you wont be able to do 5v5s anymore ither due to the power creep cryptic is putting out...


im asking for parity at least for the romulans im not asking for a silver spoon to feed me or a golden parachute the -10 to all subsystems digs way too deep it will lessen the effectiveness of your heals/tank/turning/speed/damage to a point where even a weak player could stomp on you skill be darned

the abilities you say to build around do basically NOTHING its why i also dont build around c-store ship consoles i build from base parts and skills the rest should be nothing more then sprinkles on top well the singularity abilities are spinkles made of dirt and its putting a bitter flavor in my mouth.
Andy@andy30
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1615554000&dateline=1  365460663
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 354
# 33
05-13-2013, 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poeddude View Post
Firstly, warp core efficiency works off what the power is SET TO, not what it actually is. Meaning that a Romulan ship running 90/100, 40/50, 15/25, 15/25 gets no more benefit than a Fed ship running at 100/100, 50/50, 25/25, 25/25.
No crap, really? Of course, not that it has anything to do with what I'm discussing, which is offsetting the singularity core penalty itself, not singularity core power comparative to Fed/KDF M/AM cores.

Quote:
Secondly, 6 points in warp core efficiency equates to about 3 power when set at 25.
( Skill Level / 533.33) * ( 75 - Current Subsystem Power Setting )

This is the latest efficiency equation, as far as I know. Six points in WCE is 84 skill, which at 25 power setting gives +8, nearly completely offsetting the singularity core penalty at low power levels.

Quote:
Thirdly, Romulan captains cant get Efficient Captain.
Last I checked, alien-gen will be playable and so will be liberated borg. Either get efficient captain.

Quote:
Fourthly, there is currently no Romulan faction Boff that has the Efficient Trait.
Keyword, currently. The game's still in beta, you know. Romulans will invariably get their own liberated borg boff, Romulan-Feds will probably be able to have saurians, and Romulan-KDF will probably be able to have letheans, in the near future.

Actually now that I think of it, I think my Romulan-KDF has a lethean boff recruitment assignment on timer. Might be nausicaan, I can't remember offhand.

Quote:
There is a way to effectively negate the penalty to power levels for Romulan ships.
This would be what I'm discussing. In no way am I discussing whether or not...

Quote:
...you can do the same thing on Fed or KDF ships and end up with much better power levels.
Also, in edit, a postscript. Yeah, give it two months after the LoR metagame develops and people realize how ridiculously powerful quantum absorption is. Not many people will be flying around with a full singularity charge just for the sake of power levels.
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:

Spock's Brain.

Last edited by theodrim; 05-13-2013 at 03:57 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 258
# 34
05-13-2013, 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
That's the tradeoff for those oh so wonderful singularity powers your romulan ship has.
I can't speak for any one else, but I don't find the singularity powers to be wonderful on any level. The slow build up and long dead period after using them makes them the farthest thing in the world from being dynamic.

Giving up 40 power is an extreme cost that isn't justified by an occasional use of a flashy power. In order for the powers to justify the lack of fun otherwise, they'd have to basically be "I WIN" buttons, which of course is also a bad idea.

If they want to make singularity powers/cores attractive then one or more of the following:

1) Get rid of the "dead" period after using a singularity power. The loss of the accumulated charge should be the penalty for using the power, not the loss of any benefit from the warp core. Any time you're in combat, the core is charging, and you simply decide when it's at a high enough level and/or the situation calls for using it.

If you want to make it a binary on/off thing then instead do this:

2) Singularity powers can be used any time the core is on line. They don't "charge up" they're just available or unavailable. There's no base penalty to the power level of romulan ships, but after they use a singularity power, their power levels drop -40 for 30 second or a minute or however long it takes for the core to recharge. Maybe have power levels come back up gradually, but the singularity powers aren't available until the full -40 penalty has worn off. Maybe even allow things like Siphon Power to speed this recharge up.


One or the other. Either a warp core is a thing that charges up until it can be used for some purpose, or it's a thing that can normally be used, but becomes "exhausted" temporarily. You cannot have this "Start with a penalty, slowly raise yourself out of that penalty, then use a power to put yourself back in queue before you can start raising yourself out of the penalty" garbage mechanic.

It's not fun, it's not dynamic, it's a gimmick for people who like having a big flashing "I win" button on their screen. When people figure out that the "I win" button either does or does not work consistently, some one (either Romulan players or non-Romulan players) are going to be pissed.

Last edited by voxinvictus; 05-13-2013 at 04:07 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 534
# 35
05-13-2013, 04:03 PM
let Us Please Stay On Topic And Talking About The Solution With The Singularity Core Item.

If You Want To Talk About The Ships Themselves, Go Back In The Ship/singularity Topic.

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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 243
# 36
05-13-2013, 04:09 PM
I just love how everyone is "PvP is difficult PvE is soooo easy!!!!" and then the only proposal that ever comes up is "let's just ditch the new system so we can fly our existing ships with new skins!"

Sorry guys, go back to your PvP in your Fed/Klink ships...it doesn't matter what you're flying if you insist that they all behave exactly the same way.

...or MAYBE you could start suggesting things to make PvP not all about pure DPS? No, we gotta "fix" (i.e. remove) anything new that might shake things up instead...

(oh, also, there was absolutely no point in breaking this away from the main ship/singularity thread because it's exactly what people have been whining about from the beginning.)
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 294
# 37
05-13-2013, 04:09 PM
and they want to be uppity about romulans paying for advantages do you see an advantage in 2000damage+4000dmg dot(dot will be cleared as soon as you put it there

teleporting 5kms forwards leaving behind a less than glorified gravity well sure it does stuff to the enemy while they are within range of it for a second or so before they tear you up with your minimal power levels.

gaining 2k shield per facing and some extra hull that will just like the other 30-50k of your hull go poof in an alpha strike

i have no complaints about the BO knockoff but since its based on your weapon damage(thats going to be lower then normal) its not going to be impressive

and finally the most useless one send out clones of yourself and then sometime after they disappear you get a soft cloak. you will be tractored well before it happens due to them expecting it

these worth losing -10 across the board never mind the cloak.

if anything this will reinforce the decloak alpha tacts as the only viable romulans and you would be far more efficient going klingon as you can put some nasty tricks on that that are worth more to escape such as a jam etc etc...viral etc etc all while having the firepower of a deathstar


again to the point of the thread make them optional they are gimmicks and the other ships gimmicks are optional and hell they didnt nerf the vesta cause it could pop a green heal bubble so why nerf the romulans?

P.S.

if cryptic wanted thigns to be diffrent they would bring science back up to usefulness make tacts do their own thing not buffing that etc they dotn want diffrent they want MONEY

they keep telling us science that oh this is the buff you been asking for blah blah blah these abilities might be sciency but they are not a buff they are not even any better then what we already have.
Andy@andy30
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1615554000&dateline=1  365460663

Last edited by kamipoi; 05-13-2013 at 04:15 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 258
# 38
05-13-2013, 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
And this is EXACTLY why I've argued that leech should not be brought over. Because as it is now, Federation Romulans will come up with innovative, creative builds, while Klink Romulans will just run to the leech and rebuild their cookie-cutter prefab ships.
it's really cute the way you think there's going to be "innovation" when the mechanics of how the singularity powers work really hamstrings the ability to use them in any dynamic way.

Can't use them dropping out of cloak as a secondary alpha, can't use them back to back, can't use them without first charging up (and they won't be effective unless they've charged up for quite awhile) and then when you do use them, long dead period where you're at -10 all power levels with no compensating benefit.

It's fine that singularity powers have a cost, or that Romulans play "different" than the rest, but slapping on a very clunky "Win Button" mechanic and then a large penalty to general performance is not really making them more dynamic, if anything it's making them more focused on just surviving long enough to get the "money shot" then back to being under powered.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 258
# 39
05-13-2013, 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
I just love how everyone is "PvP is difficult PvE is soooo easy!!!!" and then the only proposal that ever comes up is "let's just ditch the new system so we can fly our existing ships with new skins!"
I don't PvP at all, and I still think the Singularity core/powers are really lousy once you get past the initial "Wow!" factor.

However, I do sympathize with those who are going to be affected by it just as much as (or more than) I am.

Regardless of what's done or not done with PvP, it's always going to be more sensitive to imbalance than PvE is.

Last edited by voxinvictus; 05-13-2013 at 04:20 PM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 294
# 40
05-13-2013, 04:21 PM
i will end up not making a romulan i have a klingon it gets more romulan style play from the bop then a romulan warbird does its gimp is a rightly earned one it pays health for turnrate and the ability to cloak.

the abilities in their current form are nothing spectacular and we pay for them with cores that don't do the following

A>W,+5maximum powerlevel,+5powerlevel
isntead we get things that buff these abilities and if we wait 2minuts buff 1 powerlevel

is that not balanced in its own right?

and yes the cloak must have a balancing factor -5power fine thats acceptable

TLDR
warp core diffrences aught to count in the balancing debate fix it by understanding we are already at a dissadvantage and remove half of the power nerf
Andy@andy30
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1615554000&dateline=1  365460663
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