Republic Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,810
# 11
05-14-2013, 02:11 AM
I don't know why you tacs feel shortchanged. At least GDF is useful when it is up. MW and Photonic Fleet are two of the worst innates in the game, and they occupy a whole career trait.

I'm about to die, here, pop a MW, cleanses no debuffs, reduces its cooldown, die seconds later anyway.
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Posts: 145
# 12
05-14-2013, 02:19 AM
I don't know why you tacs feel shortchanged. At least GDF is useful when it is up. MW and Photonic Fleet are two of the worst innates in the game, and they occupy a whole career trait.

I'm about to die, here, pop a MW, cleanses no debuffs, reduces its cooldown, die seconds later anyway.


Smokey I agree with you!

For the record some of the people talking in this thread are the same people that proposed the changes to the eptx nerfs and buffs to eptW which as everyone knows caused a HUGE uproar within the sto community! The same people are now on a mission to buff GDF but keep all the other traits to make them that much more powerful :L

They proposed that eptS gets a nerf and eptW gets a buff in response to the new changes to GDF being only activated at 50% so that they can have eptW (something that can replace GDF). When they devs implemented their proposal, alot of people were not happy then! It will happen again if the developers keep listening to some of these people who want nothing more than to have it their own way beating up on players taking any advantage they can get!

I shudder to think of how many players are from Sad Pandas in this thread....



"Respect yourself and others will respect you."
― Confucius, Sayings of Confucius

Last edited by spacefortress; 05-14-2013 at 02:22 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,763
# 13
05-14-2013, 02:48 AM
first of all, this tac hate is hilarious, seriously. you poor, poor scis

the GDF change is a nerf, an uneeded nerf. we say dont nerf me for no reason bro, and suddenly the ability name RPers are up in force. its go down fighting, so you should only be able to use it wile going down fighting! regardless of balance concerns and the abilities role. if it weren't for the name you would have nothing to complain about. same thing for the EPt change that was thankfully prevented. scary to think so many think the ability name is more important then functioning game play.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spacefortress View Post
I don't know why you tacs feel shortchanged. At least GDF is useful when it is up. MW and Photonic Fleet are two of the worst innates in the game, and they occupy a whole career trait.

I'm about to die, here, pop a MW, cleanses no debuffs, reduces its cooldown, die seconds later anyway.


Smokey I agree with you!

For the record some of the people talking in this thread are the same people that proposed the changes to the eptx nerfs and buffs to eptW which as everyone knows caused a HUGE uproar within the sto community! The same people are now on a mission to buff GDF but keep all the other traits to make them that much more powerful :L

They proposed that eptS gets a nerf and eptW gets a buff in response to the new changes to GDF being only activated at 50% so that they can have eptW (something that can replace GDF). When they devs implemented their proposal, alot of people were not happy then! It will happen again if the developers keep listening to some of these people who want nothing more than to have it their own way beating up on players taking any advantage they can get!

I shudder to think of how many players are from Sad Pandas in this thread....



"Respect yourself and others will respect you."
― Confucius, Sayings of Confucius
i cant make much sense of that, but at the very least ussultimatum and myself came out totally against the change, due to its cruiser nerfing and exploit ability. not a single person of fleet ever suggested they do what they were initially going to do, that was diametrically apposed to all feedback that was out there on the EPt skills. no one has even brought up EPt here but you, and those skills have nothing to do with GDF at all. this thread is about undoing the GDF change, so its no different then it is on holo now.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,087
# 14
05-14-2013, 03:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
first of all, this tac hate is hilarious, seriously. you poor, poor scis
Tac hate is pretty easy, whether somebody is a Sci or an Eng.
Kind of like Escort hate is pretty easy, heck, even Tacs in Cruisers/Battle Cruisers join in on the Escort hate.

There are plenty of reasons to hate Tac...however, that hate is misguided with regard to the GDF changes, imho. That's not where any change was needed. As it works on Holo fits thematically and mechanically...there's not an issue there. They should keep GDF like it is on Holo but make sure that the LDE trait only applies at 50% or below.

Folks arguing to keep the GDF changes...well, to me - that's just spite, just blind hate, and it detracts from the overall goal of trying to balance things. It also sheds a poor light on those that have more than enough justification to hate the entitlement issues that Tacs have. It makes us look bad because we'll end up grouped with the blind hate folks...and meh, everybody makes fun of them.
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,767
# 15
05-14-2013, 04:30 AM
While I agree that Photonic fleet is a bit rubbish, Miracle worker can save your bacon in PVE pretty nicely if you get and survive the infamous invisible super torpedo.


Now, I can understand that Go down fighting may have needed a nerf.

But this now makes it quite useless.

On tribble I simply removed it from the bridge officer powers tray. Its as useful as the Self Destruct ability. Not useful at all.

The only problem I have is that stupid 50% hull thing. Please remove it.

Make it give a smaller bonus , but remove that 50% restriction.


So revert the 50% change.
Nerf its damage bonus or duration if you have to, but at least please make it available again.

But right now, I would rather have Photonic fleet then Go down fighting.

And if it is a name issue, rename the ability! Call it "Relentless Assault" or something else.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.

Last edited by tpalelena; 05-14-2013 at 04:35 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 16
05-14-2013, 04:49 AM
I'm going to be the tac captain that Draws Fire.

I like the new GDF, and the new trait that gives it more survivability.

Because it now functions only below 50%, I'd toss it on my spambar together with Fleet Support. That way, the moment I drop below 50% the skill fires off giving a huge damage bonus and I get a survivability buff which at that point I really damn need one!!

Its however overbalanced by getting subnuc'd off. That is the real issue here.

Subnuc needs to not affect all Captain skill buffs. So it can take out APO, but affects nothing that takes longer than a minute to recharge.

*battle cloaks*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
What should I wish upon the endless universe;
To be able to smile and forgive everything;
That's right, if we light up the dream in our hearts without averting our eyes;
We should be able to walk whatever tomorrow comes...

I am V. Adm. Kha Yuung, and I approve of this message.

Last edited by khayuung; 05-14-2013 at 04:51 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,767
# 17
05-14-2013, 04:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by khayuung View Post
I'm going to be the tac captain that Draws Fire.

I like the new GDF, and the new trait that gives it more survivability.

Because it now functions only below 50%, I'd toss it on my spambar together with Fleet Support. That way, the moment I drop below 50% the skill fires off giving a huge damage bonus and I get a survivability buff which at that point I really damn need one!!

Its balanced by getting subnuc'd off, which is the real issue here. Personally, I think Subnuc needs to not affect all Captain skill buffs. So it can take out APO, but nothing that takes longer than a minute to recharge.

*battle cloaks*
That..is not really any good for PVE.

The survivability bonus is not enough against the borgs mean enough to damage you down to 50% in the first place.
And those who you can survive to fight with 50% health are not good enough to damage you that much in the first place.

My own problem with Subnuc is that it gives even weapons fire a double cooldown time.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 18
05-14-2013, 05:02 AM
Thing is, together with TI, the new GDF favors Tac cruisers. I can easily drop to 50% and Aux2SIF3 back 25%, EM3 then Lance someone's shield facing down as a counterpunch. TI fired off that this point extends my burst capacity as well by doubling the uptime of cannon skills.

All the other tac skills benefit all ships, including cruisers.

The way I see it, STO ends up in a situation where to be optimized, Engineers fly virtually immortal Escorts or Bugs, Tacs go into cruisers healing and burst dps-ing, Sci need tac-focused carriers to keep up, and Science Vessels become even more useless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
What should I wish upon the endless universe;
To be able to smile and forgive everything;
That's right, if we light up the dream in our hearts without averting our eyes;
We should be able to walk whatever tomorrow comes...

I am V. Adm. Kha Yuung, and I approve of this message.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,767
# 19
05-14-2013, 05:06 AM
The way I see it, I want Photonic fleet for tacticals instead of go down fighting.

This ability is just pure uselessness, unless you are in a cruiser.

And if I'm in a cruiser I want to be an engineer not a tacital! I hate it when I cant get the maximum out of the ship class that should go with the character career.


I'm a tactical, not an engineer Jim!
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,087
# 20
05-14-2013, 05:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpalelena View Post
I hate it when I cant get the maximum out of the ship class that should go with the character career.
Again, there are no ships that go with career. There are no restrictions.

A Cruiser != an Engineer.
An Engineer != a Cruiser.

There is maximizing, no doubt - the Tac in an Escort can do more damage than the Tac in a Cruiser or a Science Vessel...but maximizing comes (or at least should, it's broken in STO) at the cost of minimizing.

The Tac Cruiser should technically be able to do more overall damage than the Tac Escort...because the Tac Escort should either need to disengage or be looking at a respawn button from not having disengaged.

Of course, if the Tac in the Escort is receiving support in the form of buffs/healing/target debuffs - then the Tac in the Escort should once again be able to do the most damage...because of that outside support keeping them in the fight longer (either able to remain engaged longer or simply not dead).

That gets into classic Trinity though... you'd have the Tank holding aggro, the Healer keeping the Tank alive and any silly DPS that takes damage, and the DPS unloading. STO doesn't have that Trinity though.

Nor does it have the Tac in the Escort that needs to disengage.

Nor does that mean that the Tac in the Cruiser can eventually outdamage the Tac in the Escort.

Nor this, nor that, etc, etc, etc...

...it doesn't really matter. As long as there are folks that can't figure out how to put flipflops on, Cryptic will continue to buff Escorts into the absurd.

...and again, the GDF change is not a change that needs to be addressed to address that issue. It's a distraction. It's the wrong move. It will likely only result in some additional buff elsewhere which will just make things that much worse.

They should leave GDF alone (as it is on Holo) and simply make sure that LDE only applies at 50% or less.
Vice Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
V.S.S. Oracle, D'Kyr-class Science Vessel
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